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From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

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#1 · (Edited)
Civilization V/S Terrorism!








Monday, July 17, 2006:
Kiryat shmona. Israeli girls write messages on a shell at a heavy artillery position firing into civilians inside Lebanon.









Monday, July 17, 2006:
South Lebanon: A Lebanese Child Receiving the message from the Israeli girls!
 
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#352 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

What they are doing now is even worse than a war. Bombing make much more victims and destruction, it's not like that they'll fight a bunch of terrorists.....it's too easy to stay at the border and destroying the country.
 
#353 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

guille&tati4life said:
Well, i don't know about Bilbo, i haven't read all his posts but this is just not true of the majority.

I am against many actions of the Israeli government and know many other people who are but i'm certainly not anti-Jewish. I have been called anti-American and could be called anti-British (because i have problems with their governments, not the people of these countries, i am British :lol: ) but i am not against the religion most commonly practised in these places. Many people are anti-Israel but are not anti-Jewish.
i agree with you

when the french government said "no" to usa about iraq , the american news ( fox news ) said french are anti american .

ok, the main proportion of frenchs were against the war but the english and spanich people also, but they ( the american medias not american people) said that we are the only anti-american , it's totally wrong.
thats' why i said before the majority of french are anti-bush,
i 'm also shocked when some americans who don't agree with the bush police, some others answer to them " you should be shamed, it's anti-patriotic" .
here in france , we don't agree with chirac on a lot of points and we claims that without being insulted antipatriotic.

you have the right to critizice a country politics without being racist .
there exist also some jews in france who don't agree the israel politics and mulsim who don't want that iran have the atomic bomb.

it's why i said it's necessary to not believe everything in tv news because the manipulation of the images or the information ( changing key words) is so easy, currently.
 
#354 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

fadou said:
i agree with you

when the french government said "no" to usa about iraq , the american news ( fox news ) said french are anti american .

ok, the main proportion of frenchs were against the war but the english and spanich people also, but they ( the american medias not american people) said that we are the only anti-american , it's totally wrong.
thats' why i said before the majority of french are anti-bush,
i 'm also shocked when some americans who don't agree with the bush police, some others answer to them " you should be shamed, it's anti-patriotic" .
here in france , we don't agree with chirac on a lot of points and we claims that without being insulted antipatriotic.

you have the right to critizice a country politics without being racist .
there exist also some jews in france who don't agree the israel politics and mulsim who don't want that iran have the atomic bomb.

it's why i said it's necessary to not believe everything in tv news because the manipulation of the images or the information ( changing key words) is so easy, currently.
For the extreme-right media in US, everyone not pro-US is anti-US.
 
#355 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Well, if you think of war and all its complications, Israel is not doing anything unreasonable. There's no war without innocent dying. An invasion brings much more problems, including thousands of refugees, a humanitary problem.
 
#356 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

GlennMirnyi said:
Well, if you think of war and all its complications, Israel is not doing anything unreasonable. There's no war without innocent dying. An invasion brings much more problems, including thousands of refugees, a humanitary problem.

So in that case, declare a war on the entire population of Lebanon. Instead, the have declared war with Hezbollah but are destroying whatever the fuck they want and bombing whoever the fuck they want instead. Had they declared against Lebanese people as you say, trust me, things would be very different.

The is no right side in this but Israel's agression is ridiculous.
 
#357 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

If you remember, all arab states surrounding (and some not surrouding) declared war against Israel as soon as it was "born". That's not something very fair either...
As you said, there's no right side, but if you look closer, they are all "right" in their own motives...
I'm not on any side here, please... and I don't like wars or the killing of people!
 
#358 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

GlennMirnyi said:
Well, if you think of war and all its complications, Israel is not doing anything unreasonable. There's no war without innocent dying. An invasion brings much more problems, including thousands of refugees, a humanitary problem.

Thousands of refugees, humanitary problems are caused by invasions.....don't be sure about it. What about the 6000 lebaneses who came back in France, what about the thousands people from the south tha go to the north, what about people of the north who has no home because Israel bombed it!!!

It's dammages caused by war, and what Israel is doing is a war!!!!!
 
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#359 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

NaDALiTa said:
Thousands of refugees, humanitary problems are caused by invasions.....don't be sure about it. What about the 6000 lebaneses who came back in France, what about the thousands people from the south tha go to the north, what about people of the north who has no home because Israel bombed it!!!

It's dammages caused by war, and what Israel is doing is a war!!!!!

An invasion would be MUCH WORSE, in every possible way.
 
#360 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

http://counterpunch.org/cook07282006.html

July 28, 2006

How the "Deliberate" Became Only "Apparent"

The Lies Israel Tells Itself (And We Tell On Its Behalf)

By JONATHAN COOK

Nazareth.

When journalists use the word "apparently", or another favorite "reportedly", they are usually distancing themselves from an event or an interpretation in the supposed interests of "balance". But I think we should read the "apparently" contained in a statement from the head of the United Nations, Kofi Annan -- relating to the killing this week of four unarmed UN monitors by the Israeli army -- in its other sense.

When Annan says that those four deaths were "apparently deliberate", I take him to mean that the evidence shows that the killings were deliberate. And who can disagree with him? At least 10 phone calls were made to Israeli commanders over a period of six hours warning that artillery and aerial bombardments were either dangerously close to or hitting the monitors' building.

The UN post, in Khiam just inside south Lebanon, was clearly marked and well-known to the army, but nonetheless it was hit directly four times in the last hour before an Israeli helicopter fired a precision-guided missile that tore through the roof of an underground shelter, killing the monitors inside. A UN convoy that arrived too late to rescue the peacekeepers was also fired on. From the evidence, it does not get much more deliberate than that.

The problem, however, is that western leaders, diplomats and the media take the "apparently" in its first sense -- as a way to avoid holding Israel to account for its actions. For "apparently deliberate", read "almost certainly accidental". That was why the best the UN Security Council could manage after a day and a half of deliberation was a weasely statement of "shock and distress" at the killings, as though they were an act of God.

Our media are no less responsible for this evasiveness. They make sure "we" -- the publics of the West -- never countenance the thought that a society like our own, one we are always being reminded is a democracy, could sink to the depths of inhumanity required to murder unarmed peacekeepers. Who can be taken seriously challenging the Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni's assertion that "There will never be an [Israeli] army commander that will intentionally aim at civilians or UN soldiers [sic]"?

Even the minority in the West who have started to fear that Israel is "apparently" slaughtering civilians across Lebanon or that it is "apparently" intending to make refugees of a million Lebanese must presumably shrink from the idea that Israel is also capable of killing unarmed UN monitors.

After all, our media insinuate, the two cases are not comparable.

There may be good reasons why Lebanese civilians need to suffer. Let's not forget that they belong to a people (or is it a race or, maybe, a religion?) that gave birth to Hizbullah. "We" can cast aside our concerns for the moment and take it on trust that Israel has cause to kill the Lebanese or make them homeless. Doubtless the justifications will emerge later, when we have lost interest in the "Lebanon crisis". We may never hear what those reasons were, but who can doubt that they exist?

The "apparent" murder of four UN monitors, however, is a deeper challenge to our faith in our moral superiority, which is why that "apparently" is held on to as desperately as a talisman. No civilized country could kill peacekeepers, especially ones drawn from our own societies, from Canada, Finland and Austria? That is the moral separation line that divides us from the terrorists. Were that line to be erased, we would be no different from those whom we must fight.

An iconic image of this war that our media have managed to expunge from the official record but which keeps popping up in email inboxes like a guilty secret is of young Israeli girls, lipsticked and nailpolished as if on their way to a party, drawing messages of death and hatred on the sides of the missiles about to be loaded on to army trucks and tanks. In one, an out-of-focus soldier stands on a tank paternally watching over the girls as they address another death threat to Hizbullah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah.

Is this the truer face of Israeli society, even if it is the one we are never shown and refuse to believe in. And are "we" in the West hurtling down the same path?

Driving through the Jewish city of Upper Nazareth this week, I realised how inured I am becoming to this triumphal militarism -- and the racism that feeds it. Nothing surprising about the posters of "We will win" on every hoarding. But it takes me more than a few seconds to notice that the Magen David ambulance in front of me is flying a little national flag, the blue Star of David, from its window. I have heard that American fire engines flew US flags after 9/11, but this somehow seems worse. How is it possible for an ambulance, the embodiment of our neutral, civilized, universal, "Western", humanitarian values, to fly a national flag, I think to myself? And does it make a difference that only a few months ago Magen David joined the International Committee of the Red Cross?

Only slowly do my thoughts grow more disturbed: how many hospital administrators, doctors and nurses have seen that ambulance arrive at their emergency departments and thought nothing of it? And is that the only Israeli ambulance flying the flag, or are many others doing the same? Later the BBC TV news answers my question. I see two ambulances with the same flags going to the front line to collect casualties. Will others soon cross over the border into southern Lebanon, after it is "secured", and will no one mention those little flags fluttering from the window?

A psychologist tells me how upset she is about a meeting she attended a few days ago of the northern coordinating committee of her profession. They were discussing how best to treat the shock and trauma suffered by Israeli children under the bombardment from Hizbullah. The meeting concluded with an agreement that the psychologists would reassure the children with the statement: "The army is there to protect us."

And so, the seeds of fascism are unthinkingly sown for another generation of children, children like our own.

No one agreed with my friend when she dissented, arguing that this was not the message to be telling impressionable minds, and that violence against the Other is not a panacea for our problems. Parents, not soldiers, are responsible for protecting their children, she pointed out. Tanks, planes and guns bring only fear and more hatred, hatred that will one day return to haunt us.

The slow, gentle indoctrination continues day in, day out, reinforcing the idea among Israel's Jewish population that the army can do no wrong and that it needs no oversight, not even from politicians (most of whom are former generals anyway, or like the prime minister Ehud Olmert too frightened to stand up to the chiefs of staff if they wanted to). "We will win". How do we know we will win? Because "the army is there to protect us." Add into the mix that faceless "Arab" enemy, those sub-beings, and you have a recipe for fascism -- even if it is of the democratically elected variety.

The Israeli media, of course, are the key to providing the second half of that equation -- or rather not providing it. You can sit watching the main Israeli channels all day, flicking between channels 1, 2 and 10, and not see a Lebanese face, apart from that of Hassan Nasrallah, the new Hitler. I don't mean the charred faces of corpses, or the bandaged babies, or the amputees lying in hospital beds. I mean any Lebanese faces. Just as you almost never see a Palestinian face on Israeli TV unless they are the mob, disfigured with hatred as they hold aloft another martyr on his way to burial.

Lebanon only swings in to view on Israeli television through the black and white footage of an aerial gun sight, or through the long shot of a distant urban landscape seconds before it is "pulverized" by a dropped bomb. The buildings crumble, flames shoot up, clouds of dust billow into the air. Another shot of arcade-game adrenalin.

The humanitarian stories exist but they do not concern Lebanon. Animal welfare societies plead on behalf of the dogs and cats left alone to face the rocket fire on deserted Kiryat Shemona, just as they did before for foxes and deer when Israel began building its mammoth walls of concrete and steel across their migration routes in the West Bank, walls that are also imprisoning, unseen, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.

The rest of the coverage is dedicated to Israeli army spokespeople, including the national heartthrob Miri Regev, and media "commentators" and "analysts". Who are these people? They are from the same pool of former military intelligence and security service officers who once did this job in the closed rooms of army HQ but now wallow in the limelight. One favored pundit is even subtitled "Expert on psychological warfare against Hassan Nasrallah".

And who are the presenters and anchors who interview them? The other day an ageing expert on Apache helicopters interrupted his interviewer irritatedly to tell him his question was stupid. "We were in the army together and both know the answer. Don't play dumb?" It was a rare reminder that these anchors too are just soldiers in suits. One of the most popular, Ehud Yaari of Channel 2, barely conceals his military credentials as he condones yet more violence against the Lebanese or, if he can be deflected for a moment, the people of Gaza.

That is what comes of having a "citizen army", where teenagers learn to use a gun before they can drive and men do reserve duty until their late 40s. It means every male teacher, professor, psychologist and journalist thinks as a soldier because that is what he has been for most of his life.

Israel is not unique, far from it, though it is in a darker place, and has been for some time, than "we" in the West can fully appreciate. It is a mirror of what our own societies are capable of, despite our democratic values. It shows how a cult of victimhood makes one heartless and cruel, and how racism can be repackaged as civilised values.

Maybe those UN monitors, with their lookout post above the battlefield where Israel wants to use any means it can to destroy Hizbullah and Lebanese civilians who get in the way, had to be removed simply because they are a nuisance, a restraint when Israel needs to get on with the job of asserting "our" values. Maybe Israel does not want the scrutiny of peacekeepers as it fights our war on terror for us. Maybe it feared that the monitors' reports might help to give back to the Lebanese, even to Hizbullah, their faces, their history, their suffering.

And, if we are honest, Israel is not alone. How many of us want the Arabs to remain faceless so we can keep believing we are the victims of a new ideology that wants only our evisceration, just as the "Red Indians" once supposedly wanted our scalps? How many of us believe that our values demand that we fall in behind a new world order in which Arab deaths are not real deaths because "they" are not fully human?

And how many of us believe that deliberate barbarity, at least when we do it, is only "apparently" a crime against humanity?

Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. He is the author of the forthcoming "Blood and Religion: The Unmasking of the Jewish and Democratic State" published by Pluto Press, and available in the United States from the University of Michigan Press. His website is www.jkcook.net
 
#361 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

NaDALiTa said:
If they want acuurate targets why don't they take their guns and go fighting to the streets like real men , it would avoid citizen killing.
Coz they are afraid of dying. They have no chance defeating Hezbollah on the ground. They are too strong fighters. As you have probalby heard they were running like rats and yet have conquered one Hezbollah station.

As you said they've only killed around 30 Hezbollah fighters and more than 400 civilian people. That's probably the worst bilance ever from a military.

Israel is destroying themselves and they will lose this fight easily.
 
#362 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

I've been reading this thread for a while now but choosing not to contribute for many reasons, but finally decided I just wanted to come out and say that I am firmly in support of Rogiman, GlennMirnyi and others here with their point of view. I am not pro-American (in fact many times on this Board I've been described as anti-American), I am not Jewish, and although I'm British I certainly have never voted for Blair - neither did I support the Iraqi invasion...............But so many people here seem to see what they want to see - encouraged in many cases by the violently anti-Israeli, "politically correct" press in many parts of Europe - the BBC, "The Guardian" and "The Independant" being prime examples. The Israelis are defending themselves -and until any of us have lived in their country and dealt with their problems on a day-to-day basis we should not criticise them. I only personally know a little of the direct effects of living with the fear of terrorism (through both the IRA bombings when I was growing up in London, and also being directly caught up in the 7/7 Islamic underground bombings here last year) - and I can tell you it is terrifying and I couldn't live like that all the time. A journalist frend of mine told me it's a well-known fact that Hezbollah purposely put their "storngholds" next to schools and Hospitals and in civilian areas, so that they know some civilians will inevitably suffer and it will give them support and good "publicity" in the eyes of the world. So they are using their own people - just as other Islamic terrorists have used them in the past by strapping bombs to their own women and children in "suicide" attempts. Yet the "politically correct" Press still insist on painting Israel as the "bad guy" :rolleyes: and as a former journalist I know that this is true.

I sincerely hope there will be an end to this soon, becase war is evil and innocent people always suffer, but I hope my friends in Israel here such as Nimrodq and Rogiman will know I am thinking of them, and hope they are safe :hug:
 
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#363 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Rosie said:
I've been reading this thread for a while now but choosing not to contribute for many reasons, but finally decided I just wanted to come out and say that I am firmly in support of Rogiman, GlennMirnyi and others here with their point of view. I am not pro-American (in fact many times on this Board I've been described as anti-American), I am not Jewish, and although I'm British I certainly have never voted for Blair - neither did I support the Iraqi invasion...............But so many people here seem to see what they want to see - encouraged in many cases by the violently anti-Israeli, "politically correct" press in many parts of Europe - the BBC, "The Guardian" and "The Independant" being prime examples. The Israelis are defending themselves -and until any of us have lived in their country and dealt with their problems on a day-to-day basis we should not criticise them. I only personally know a little of the direct effects of living with the fear of terrorism (through both the IRA bombings when I was growing up in London, and also being directly caught up in the 7/7 Islamic underground bombings here last year) - and I can tell you it is terrifying and I couldn't live like that all the time. A journalist frend of mine told me it's a well-known fact that Hezbollah purposely put their "storngholds" next to schools and Hospitals and in civilian areas, so that they know some civilians will inevitably suffer and it will give them support and good "publicity" in the eyes of the world. So they are using their own people - just as other Islamic terrorists have used them in the past by strapping bombs to their own women and children in "suicide" attempts. Yet the "politically correct" Press still insist on painting Israel as the "bad guy" :rolleyes: and as a former journalist I know that this is true.

I sincerely hope there will be an end to this soon, becase war is evil and innocent people always suffer, but I hope my friends in Israel here such as Nimrodq and Rogiman will know I am thinking of them, and hope they are safe :hug:
:worship: Same feeling here ;)
 
#365 · (Edited)
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Rosie said:
...............But so many people here seem to see what they want to see - encouraged in many cases by the violently anti-Israeli, "politically correct" press in many parts of Europe - the BBC, "The Guardian" and "The Independant" being prime examples.
Well, I can only speak for myself here but I'm trying to see this situations from both sides. Not merely from a pro-Israel or a pro-Lebanon point of view but from both sides. It looks to me that a lot of people pick a side and interprete what they see and read in the media from that point of view.
I think that most of us will never get the full picture but we can try to get as broad a view as possible.

Before you attack the European press, I have seen a lot of very critical views on Hezbollah, suicide bombers, terrorism and such things. At the same time, there's criticism on Israel's current approach and that is not the same thing as being anti-Israel.
What's wrong with trying to see things from both sides?

So, not picking a side...I hope that they will find a way to stop this violence. Not just for the innocent people in Israel but also for the innocent people in Lebanon who haven't asked for this either.

I agree that Isreal has the right to defend itself and there's only so much you can do with words and diplomacy but that doesn't mean that you have to approve of every action they take.


***
Thanks, Mandoura...that's an interesting link you gave me. The Islamic word to 1600
 
#366 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Castafiore said:
Well, I can only speak for myself here but I'm trying to see this situations from both sides. Not merely from a pro-Israel or a pro-Lebanon point of view but from both sides. It looks to me that a lot of people pick a side and interprete what they see and read in the media from that point of view.
I think that most of us will never get the full picture but we can try to get as broad a view as possible.

Before you attack the European press, I have seen a lot of very critical views on Hezbollah, suicide bombers, terrorism and such things. At the same time, there's criticism on Israel's current approach and that is not the same thing as being anti-Israel.
What's wrong with trying to see things from both sides?

So, not picking a side...I hope that they will find a way to stop this violence. Not just for the innocent people in Israel but also for the innocent people in Lebanon who haven't asked for this either.

I agree that Isreal has the right to defend itself and there's only so much you can do with words and diplomacy but that doesn't mean that you have to approve of every action they take.


***
Thanks, Mandoura...that's an interesting link you gave me. The Islamic word to 1600
I was not attacking ALL the European Press - of course there are some who try to be fair and reasonable and see both sides, and some people like yourself, who are literate and intelligent enough to want so see and hear both sides too. But certainly here in the UK there is a very large "politically correct" element who refuse to see anything wrong in the Islamic world nor anything right in the Jewish/Israeli one - and that is what I was commenting on. If they were prepared to see things from both sides then it wouldn't be such a problem.
 
#367 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Rosie said:
I've been reading this thread for a while now but choosing not to contribute for many reasons, but finally decided I just wanted to come out and say that I am firmly in support of Rogiman, GlennMirnyi and others here with their point of view. I am not pro-American (in fact many times on this Board I've been described as anti-American), I am not Jewish, and although I'm British I certainly have never voted for Blair - neither did I support the Iraqi invasion...............But so many people here seem to see what they want to see - encouraged in many cases by the violently anti-Israeli, "politically correct" press in many parts of Europe - the BBC, "The Guardian" and "The Independant" being prime examples. The Israelis are defending themselves -and until any of us have lived in their country and dealt with their problems on a day-to-day basis we should not criticise them. I only personally know a little of the direct effects of living with the fear of terrorism (through both the IRA bombings when I was growing up in London, and also being directly caught up in the 7/7 Islamic underground bombings here last year) - and I can tell you it is terrifying and I couldn't live like that all the time. A journalist frend of mine told me it's a well-known fact that Hezbollah purposely put their "storngholds" next to schools and Hospitals and in civilian areas, so that they know some civilians will inevitably suffer and it will give them support and good "publicity" in the eyes of the world. So they are using their own people - just as other Islamic terrorists have used them in the past by strapping bombs to their own women and children in "suicide" attempts. Yet the "politically correct" Press still insist on painting Israel as the "bad guy" :rolleyes: and as a former journalist I know that this is true.

I sincerely hope there will be an end to this soon, becase war is evil and innocent people always suffer, but I hope my friends in Israel here such as Nimrodq and Rogiman will know I am thinking of them, and hope they are safe :hug:
Wow! Rosie, I've been around here long enough to really respect your opinion so this view is strange to me. (the view in bold :lol: ) I don't find the press to be at all biased in this way. :tape: I see reports that seem pro-Islamic and some that are pro-Israeli, why do you think that they're anti-Israel
 
#368 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Rosie said:
But certainly here in the UK there is a very large "politically correct" element who refuse to see anything wrong in the Islamic world nor anything right in the Jewish/Israeli one - and that is what I was commenting on. If they were prepared to see things from both sides then it wouldn't be such a problem.
Well yes, I agree with that but doesn't this have a flipside as well?
There are sections of the international media who refuse to see anything right in the Islamic world.

I am amazed to read a post from Rogiman suggesting that "It's time muslims started contributing something to this world, as they apparently have never done".
Just click on the above link (Mandoura) and you'll see how wrong Rogiman is in the assumption that they haven't yet contributed to this world.
 
#369 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

guille&tati4life said:
Wow! Rosie, I've been around here long enough to really respect your opinion so this view is strange to me. (the view in bold :lol: ) I don't find the press to be at all biased in this way. :tape: I see reports that seem pro-Islamic and some that are pro-Israeli, why do you think that they're anti-Israel
I agree 100%. The press here for the most part have tried to be as impartial as possible. The problem is that because the Middle East stirs up so many emotions, each side will always say the media is biased without looking more closely at the facts. The common consensus is that while Israel does have the right to defend itself from the attacks by Hezbollah, their actions have been 'disproportionate' and destroying a country that was beginning to find its feet again.
 
#370 · (Edited)
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

all beaches of Beirut and around are destroyed. oil is floatting from a hit power plant.

Rosie said:
I sincerely hope there will be an end to this soon, becase war is evil and innocent people always suffer, but I hope my friends in Israel here such as Nimrodq and Rogiman will know I am thinking of them, and hope they are safe :hug:
On the one side you say you are neutral but on the other side you just feel with Israelian people. Here are also some people from Lebanon.

Pathetic thinking, Rosie. Sorry to say that.
 
#371 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Bilbo said:
all beaches of Beirut and around are destroyed. oil is floatting from a hit power plant.



On the one side you say you are neutral but on the other side you just feel with Israelian people. Here are also some people from Lebanon.

Pathetic thinking, Rosie. Sorry to say that.
Can you read? I said at the very beginnng of my post that I had decided after a long silence to come out firmly in support of the posts of Rogiman etc. So much as I hate the killing of anyone, anywhere, anytime I am NOT neutral on this issue and never said I was. So if you think having an opinion different from your own is "pathetic" then I can't help that, but it does rather illustrate why I took so long to contribute in this thread as I don't want to get involved in slanging matches over politics with anyone - let alone on a tennis message board. As for the British media thing -in my experiance the only even-slightly pro-Israel papers here are the right-wing ones such as "Telegraph", "Mail" and Express" - in my view the rest of them are not. And I am off to watch Calleri/Chela now so plan to leave this thread before the insults and nastiness starts :rolleyes:
 
#372 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Rosie said:
As for the British media thing -in my experiance the only even-slightly pro-Israel papers here are the right-wing ones such as "Telegraph", "Mail" and Express" - in my view the rest of them are not. And I am off to watch Calleri/Chela now so plan to leave this thread before the insults and nastiness starts :rolleyes:
The thing is even the Daily Mail, probably the most pro-Israel paper here have criticized Israel actions in this conflict as being 'disproportionate' in their editorials.
Enjoy the match.
 
#373 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Rosie said:
A journalist frend of mine told me it's a well-known fact that Hezbollah purposely put their "storngholds" next to schools and Hospitals and in civilian areas, so that they know some civilians will inevitably suffer and it will give them support and good "publicity" in the eyes of the world.

This is a major reason why many are opposed to the military action. Civilian fatalities including children will be very sizeable; another circa 40 including circa 20 children killed today. To achieve the goal Israel are seeking they may have to kill 1,000's of civilians/children.

Anyway Hezbollah will they attract more members as the general Islamic populus sympathise with their plight and the conflict will continue. Military force has not been the solution for 50 years and do not see it solving the problem as it intensifies the hostilities on each side.
 
#374 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Well, I didn't get a time before to post my opinion about what happenned today so i'll write it now -

I've got to say that i'm pretty shocked from the pictures that i saw from Qana, it's an horrible disaster and i'm truly sorry for it, and i'm sure that the IDF will do the best he can do to handle those who responisble for it, i mean those who didn't checked that there were civilians over there.
Although that i know that the Hezbollah were firing rockets from this area, and even there are reports that the big blast was caused of Katiusha store nearby, there's no explaniation for killing so many innocent people, Children and Women.

It's a sad thing that the most of the victims in this war are civilians, in both sides, civilians who just tried to live their life and maybe they didn't have a place to hide from the bombs.

Although i believe that Israel didn't finished the work in Lebanon, and we should still fight against the Hezbollah, maybe the best thing to do now is a ceasefire to atleast prevent such incidents in both side of the border.

All i can wish now is that the situation will be back and maybe in someday there will be peace and there won't be such tragdies,

Nimrod.
 
#375 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

Go to this link for the photos:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

THIS is the picture that damns Hezbollah. It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia.

The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons.

Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.

The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend.

They emerged as:

US President George Bush called for an international force to be sent to Lebanon.

ISRAEL called up another 30,000 reserve troops.

THE UN's humanitarian chief Jan Egeland called for a three-day truce to evacuate civilians and transport food and water into cut-off areas.

US SECRETARY of State Condoleezza Rice returned to the Middle East to push a UN resolution aimed at ending the 18-day war, and:

A PALESTINIAN militant group said it had kidnapped, killed and burned an Israeli settler in the West Bank.

The images include one of a group of men and youths preparing to fire an anti-aircraft gun metres from an apartment block with sheets hanging out on a balcony to dry.

Others show a militant with AK47 rifle guarding no-go zones after Israeli blitzes.

Another depicts the remnants of a Hezbollah Katyusha rocket in the middle of a residential block blown up in an Israeli air attack.

The Melbourne man who smuggled the shots out of Beirut and did not wish to be named said he was less than 400m from the block when it was obliterated.

"Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets," he said.

"Until the Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then it was totally devastated.

"It was carnage. Two innocent people died in that incident, but it was so lucky it was not more."

The release of the images comes as Hezbollah faces criticism for allegedly using innocent civilians as "human shields".

Mr Egeland blasted Hezbollah as "cowards" for operating among civilians.

"When I was in Lebanon, in the Hezbollah heartland, I said Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending in among women and children," he said.
 
#376 ·
Re: From The Lebanese People To The So Called “Civilized” West... "Thank You"

A lot of us have feared that this crisis will erupt into something that could lead to World War 3. I think, today, with the news of the bombing of the children in Lebnanon, a step, closer to war, was taken.
 
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