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Old 05-05-2010, 11:38 AM   #76
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by P. Antonius View Post
I guess Northern Europe should just keep working more to pay for the lazy Southern...
I have a solution: why don't you give us some of that Nazi money I'm sure you still have?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:44 PM   #77
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I have a solution: why don't you give us some of that Nazi money I'm sure you still have?
Oh if they've spent it all there are still several hundreds of dictators and crooks to choose from...
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:56 PM   #78
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Rioting in Greece.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:02 PM   #79
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

3 dead.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:06 PM   #80
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

hehe, that new acronym now that the G in PI(I)GS has been hunted down is kind of fun:

STUPID = spain, turkey, portugal, italy, dubai.

i'm waiting for BASTARD: belgium, argentina, spain, turkey, austria, russia, dubai.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:01 PM   #81
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

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Originally Posted by JolánGagó View Post
Im not sure the "do nothing" approach would work here. What would happen with the hugely exposed German banks and Germany's huge trade surpluses if Greece and then others are left to bankrupt? Rethorical question.
Nailed it. This is as much of a bailout for the German and French banks as it is for Greece.

People still can't get their head around the simple notion that Germany acts in self-interest in international financial matters just as every other nation does.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:11 PM   #82
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

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Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
Nailed it. This is as much of a bailout for the German and French banks as it is for Greece.

People still can't get their head around the simple notion that Germany acts in self-interest in international financial matters just as every other nation does.
Exactly, and the German public and lower end media (the one ppl read) up there on their high horses "why should we pay?!" "let the pigs eat their shit!" and so on... hahaha... I'd like to see them later when their country economy colapses for lack of customers and their banks go bust
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:16 PM   #83
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Also, it's rarely mentioned in this context (same with 3rd world debt) that dumb borrowing can only result from dumb lending.

The banks who authorise stupid loans are just as culpable as those who end up defaulting on them
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:27 PM   #84
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-pe..._b_562020.html

Standard and Poor's: The Voice of Sanity on the Deficit

It might seem extraordinary, but in the midst of deficit-cutting mania it is a rating agency, Standard and Poor's, that is talking common sense about government debt.

By doing so they are challenging members of the international Austerity Party -- a political party that dominates economic debate across the world.

In this case the rating agency was commenting on the crisis in Greece and Portugal -- but the comment could just as well apply to the United States -- or any other economy trying to recover from a financial crisis induced by private bankers.

Standard and Poor's officials are quoted by the New York Times (28 April, 2010) as saying:

"The main reason for downgrading the debt of Greece and Portugal was the prospect that forced austerity packages would be an even bigger drag on economic growth.

It is the most vicious of circles: stagnating economies are forced to cut back more, which reduces their ability to generate revenue and thus pay off their debts."

This economic common sense makes a refreshing change from the suicidal howls of the lemming-like hordes leading the international Austerity Party. These dominate all economic debate on the airwaves, in newspaper columns, economic blogs and political outlets.

As they head for the cliffs, they can be heard baying for cuts in government spending -- regardless of economic common sense; regardless of the likely economic impact.

Their argument is simple: when a nation is at its weakest, when its debts are highest, when the economy is at greatest peril, then it is imperative to apply draconian policies for cutting the deficit.

These policies must include vicious cut-backs on efforts by the government to stimulate economic recovery, and generate the revenues that will repay debts.

In particular government must cut back on public investment in infrastructure that creates jobs, generates tax revenues (through the 'multiplier') and helps the economy recover, so that debts can be repaid.

In other words, when an economy -- any economy -- is heavily in debt and on its knees...

That is the moment, argues the Austerity Party, to cut off its legs.

Before forcing it to run the marathon.

Forgive the violence of my analogy, but sometimes words, as Keynes argued, have to be a little wild, to rouse people from their blindness to grave threats and risks.

Right now the European Union and IMF, with the forceful backing of the German chancellor and finance minister, are coercing the democratically elected Greek government into effectively disabling the Greek economy.

According to the Financial Times (2 May 2010) there is to be " a huge fiscal tightening equal to 16 per cent of gross domestic product -- an extra 11 per cent on top of the 5 per cent already announced."

"Greece's vicious recession is poised to continue and deepen... The fiscal targets require huge upfront cuts in public spending, including reductions in public sector pay, jobs and pensions."

The IMF's representative Poul Thomsen had the gall to argue that this disastrous economic strategy "is credible because it has a lot of support from the international community; it is credible because it is socially well balanced; it is credible because it is the [Greek] government's programme."

This is a dishonest and delusional statement.

It is dishonest because it is blatantly not the Greek government's program. It is the German government's condition for making bailout funds available.

It is delusional, because it is an economic strategy designed to fail.

While it may be credible with the members of the international Austerity Party, it is not economically viable.

Ask Standard and Poor's.

The voice of common sense, drowned out by the hysteria and flawed economics of the Austerity Party.
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:33 PM   #85
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
hehe, that new acronym now that the G in PI(I)GS has been hunted down is kind of fun:

STUPID = spain, turkey, portugal, italy, dubai.

i'm waiting for BASTARD: belgium, argentina, spain, turkey, austria, russia, dubai.
I also like the reverse FUKG (France, United Kingdom, Germany).
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Quote:
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:33 PM   #86
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

Oh well not that I disagree with the main thesis but asking S&P isn't precisely what any man with common sense would do, a few months ago those guys were still rating AAA the very same "subprime" loans now considered infra-junk
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:40 AM   #87
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I also like the reverse FUKG (France, United Kingdom, Germany).
...which doesn't make sense though in this context: it's about countries whose debt has been spiraling out of control, which is why markets have attacked them in the last couple of months.

BASTARD and STUPID does make sense though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henrychinaski
This is as much of a bailout for the German and French banks as it is for Greece.
i doubt it. obviously banks are benefactors, i give you that. it's not as big a deal monetarily as you'd think though. german banks would need to write off about 40 billion euros if all of their money would vanish. that's the worst-case scenario though. between black (giving greece aid) and white (letting them die alone) there are tons of shades. germany/france/brussels could make them have a "haircut", which means athens would sort of partly default - foreign institutional creditors usually still get served, first and foremost, as we've seen in argentina. that way germany would a) save tons of taxpayers' money and b) its banks would still keep their cash.

another thing many seem to forget is that russia or china would probably swoop in if europe decided to let greece slip. sure, it'd mean quite a blow for euuopean geopolitics to have another "entity" among its nations, another major player to cope with right on the doorstep - but money-wise, like i said, taxpayers in germany and france would be better off.

if germany acted in "self-interest", as you point out, they'd demand much more collateral: we give you cash and you blow it - we take over your companies, your shipping lines, your infrastructure, your country, everything. that's what happens on the market. if we'd actually have one.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:33 PM   #88
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5XIF...ayer_embedded#!

interesting debate. conclusion: the bail-out isn't a bail-out for germany OR greece - but for france.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:44 PM   #89
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ge-custom1.jpg

man, italy alone would virtually sink france.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:00 PM   #90
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Default Re: Credit crisis in Greece, others to follow...?

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Originally Posted by Rrrainer View Post
...which doesn't make sense though in this context: it's about countries whose debt has been spiraling out of control, which is why markets have attacked them in the last couple of months.

BASTARD and STUPID does make sense though.
I know, that's why I said "reverse".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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