France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil - Page 3 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 02-07-2010, 11:44 PM   #31
country flag Getta
Registered User
 
Getta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,983
Getta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond reputeGetta has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

an old post of mine.

too tired to elaborate beyond now so shall i end here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
... and yes I agree that enforcing any dress code of the like is barbaric and should only be out of self-conviction.
OK, i'll make an exception for this.

it's not simply a matter of enforcing a dress code... is that warm glance and smiling indicate we want to communicate with someone... laugh lines are charming and can break the tension, and also help us decipher the real feelings of the ones we look at...
Getta is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 02-07-2010, 11:51 PM   #32
country flag habibko
Registered User
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 19,874
habibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getta View Post
an old post of mine.

too tired to elaborate beyond now so shall i end here.



OK, i'll make an exception for this.

it's not simply a matter of enforcing a dress code... is that warm glance and smiling indicate we want to communicate with someone... laugh lines are charming and can break the tension, and also help us decipher the real feelings of the ones we look at...
yes and that's my big problem with covering the face, and it's even bigger a problem when done in the name of Islam when it isn't.

leave the face cover for ninjas and assassins FFS.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
If I can help the game of tennis with the image or with making it more popular, that’s enough for me really. I want to leave the game better off than when I came into this great game
habibko is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 12:10 AM   #33
country flag star
Blown Out On the Trail
 
star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 62,737
star has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post

I understand that =) but the vast majority of women in the Islamic world don't see it like you do.
I don't think the vast majority of women in the Islamic world think it necessary to cover every inch of their body with fabric. This isn't a choice they are making. It's a choice made for them. How many ditch the veil when they are abroad? That means it's not a choice for themselves. Furthermore before the more recent times of fundamentalism most women in Islamic countries were not even wearing headscarves as they do now.

It's easy to say it's a choice when there are no other choices available. It's just like saying in 1850 that women chose not to have careers. The choice wasn't available.

Plus, I am always annoyed when a man puts himself in the position of being a spokesperson for women.
star is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 12:20 AM   #34
country flag habibko
Registered User
 
habibko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 28
Posts: 19,874
habibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond reputehabibko has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Quote:
Originally Posted by star View Post
I don't think the vast majority of women in the Islamic world think it necessary to cover every inch of their body with fabric. This isn't a choice they are making. It's a choice made for them. How many ditch the veil when they are abroad? That means it's not a choice for themselves. Furthermore before the more recent times of fundamentalism most women in Islamic countries were not even wearing headscarves as they do now.

It's easy to say it's a choice when there are no other choices available. It's just like saying in 1850 that women chose not to have careers. The choice wasn't available.
not all of them ditch their veils and they still believe it's a religious obligation that they are supposed to follow even if they ditched it, so they don't share Claire's view about it being enslavement with no logical reason, maybe some of them do share that view but from what I know none of them do.

they have the choice in Europe and some still wear burqas there, and many wear the Islamic veil as you should know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by star View Post
Plus, I am always annoyed when a man puts himself in the position of being a spokesperson for women.
I speak from what I know about my society, there is no Saudi girl in MTF and even if there was she can't speak in place of all Saudi women, why ignore the questions when they are directed to me?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Federer View Post
If I can help the game of tennis with the image or with making it more popular, that’s enough for me really. I want to leave the game better off than when I came into this great game
habibko is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 12:46 AM   #35
country flag R.Federer
Registered User
 
R.Federer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,821
R.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Quote:
Originally Posted by habibko View Post
they have the choice in Europe and some still wear burqas there, and many wear the Islamic veil as you should know.
I think the main point behind this refusal of citizenship was that they are not wearing it because they want to. Many others who don't want to might still say they do because of the pressure/abuse they could receive for saying something the husband espouses.
__________________
He's here!!!!
Details at http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=132151
R.Federer is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 01:05 AM   #36
country flag elessar
Fly away little pigeon
 
elessar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: not on vacation
Posts: 20,460
elessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

I think people are missing the point here, the woman already had French citizenship. It was her husband who was applying for it but was found not to respect the principle of equality between sexes.
elessar is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:38 PM   #37
country flag Echoes
Registered User
 
Echoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 1,902
Echoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Quote:
Originally Posted by elessar View Post
Secularism is a very convenient excuse in France ATM, but it'd be ridiculous to deny how important it is for French people and to think every decision is down to anti muslim sentiment.
Most people, French or others, don't even know what secularism really is. It's usually thought to be the separation between the State and the Church, while it's actually the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal. Banning religious signs in the name of moral values or whatever is an infringement of secularism between both.

I am against women wearing burqa's but first of all I don't think a law is needed at this moment and it's frightening to think it is needed. And secondly, the real reason for banning burqa's should be a matter of identification because it is a more "temporal" reason than the ideal of "secularism" (sic).
Echoes is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2010, 05:55 PM   #38
country flag star
Blown Out On the Trail
 
star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 62,737
star has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Here's another nice thing about "cultrual" choices.

An 80 year old man has a 12 year old bride who has to be taken to the hospital after he consumates the marriage.

http://www.inquisitr.com/58451/saudi...-year-old-man/
star is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 12:47 AM   #39
country flag elessar
Fly away little pigeon
 
elessar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: not on vacation
Posts: 20,460
elessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond reputeelessar has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Most people, French or others, don't even know what secularism really is. It's usually thought to be the separation between the State and the Church, while it's actually the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal. Banning religious signs in the name of moral values or whatever is an infringement of secularism between both.
The truth is french people never talk about secularism but only of "laïcité" which is accepted by all as separation between church and state. I thought secularism was the exact same thing as that, but apparently I'm wrong. Doesn't change my point in any way.
Quote:
I am against women wearing burqa's but first of all I don't think a law is needed at this moment and it's frightening to think it is needed. And secondly, the real reason for banning burqa's should be a matter of identification because it is a more "temporal" reason than the ideal of "secularism" (sic).
The real reason for banning burqa is that it is a symbol of opression and inequality, no need to get philosophical about it.
elessar is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 02:50 PM   #40
country flag Echoes
Registered User
 
Echoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 31
Posts: 1,902
Echoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond reputeEchoes has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

The French term laïcité refers to the distinction between the temporal and the spiritual ("give Caesar what belongs to Caesar and God what belongs to God"). I'm French-speaking.


Quote:
The real reason for banning burqa is that it is a symbol of opression and inequality, no need to get philosophical about it.
But that's already a philosophical statement, isn't it?
Echoes is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 04:23 AM   #41
country flag Rafa = Fed Killa
POWER...UNLIMITED...POWER
 
Rafa = Fed Killa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Age: 30
Posts: 5,046
Rafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond reputeRafa = Fed Killa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Quote:
Originally Posted by elessar View Post
The real reason for banning burqa is that it is a symbol of opression and inequality, no need to get philosophical about it.
So is a guy who wears a turban a symbol of opression and inequality because he is different.

What is it in French culture which dislikes different religious beliefs.

If a woman wants to wear a burqa its her right, if she doenst want to wear one thats also her right.

Your argument is completely illogical.
__________________
The ATP deserves a better class of player, and I'm gonna give it to 'em - Djoker

RIP TENNIS JUNE 7, 2009


Do what must be done.
Do not hesitate.
Show no mercy.
Rafa = Fed Killa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 07:02 PM   #42
country flag Nidhogg
Registered User
 
Nidhogg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,659
Nidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond reputeNidhogg has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

A recent topic of discussion in Sweden right now is how a great deal of women who originate from Somalia have become deficient of vitamin D partly due to their burqas. That is bad in itself, but there is also a great risk that when they become pregnant that deficiency is passed on to their children, who as a result risk developing autism.

The darker your skin is, the more sun you need if it's your main source of obtaining vitamin D. It's unfortunate.
Nidhogg is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 11:06 PM   #43
country flag marcRD
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 3,123
marcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond reputemarcRD has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

The same should be done in Sweden, because 90% of the time it is not the woman who choses to use the veil but she is forced by her husband or by the religion. In most countries you cant dress up how you want to, I cant dress without clothes because it offends people and the same goes with the burka, it is not part of the society in Sweden and women who dresses like that is complete outsiders in society and wont ever get a job or integrate to our way of life. Daughters who are forced to use burkas by their fathers are nothing else than slaves under the will of the family and to hide behind the freedom of choise in european countries to protect something which is so deeply connected with a lack of freedom for women is very ironic.
marcRD is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 08:13 PM   #44
country flag R.Federer
Registered User
 
R.Federer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,821
R.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond reputeR.Federer has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: France refuses a citizenship over full Islamic veil

Didn't want to start a new thread.

Is this just coincidence, or after Switzerland and France, is it snowballing into something much bigger through the euro zone?

Dutch anti-Islam MP Geert Wilders makes strong showing in local polls


Mr Wilders's far-Right Party for Freedom (PVV) made a strong showing in local polls held Wednesday, while the traditionally strong Christian Democratic (CDA) and Labour (PvdA) parties lost support, early results showed.
The PVV came first and second in the only two of 394 municipalities it contested.

It was the strongest party with 21.6 per cent of the vote in Almere, a city of 187,000 people near the capital Amsterdam previously won by the PvdA, and came second in the seat of government, The Hague - the Netherlands' third largest city with 442,000 residents.
"What is possible in The Hague and Almere is possible all over the country," said Mr Wilders, who is awaiting a hate speech trial for calling Islam a fascist religion and likening the Koran to Hitler's Mein Kampf.
Mr Wilders was arrested and deported from Heathrow in February 2009 after the Home Office banned him on the grounds "that his presence in the UK could foster hatred and threaten community harmony in light of his anti-Muslim rhetoric".
This was the first municipal election for the PVV, with its mission of "fighting the Islamisation of the Netherlands".
The Netherlands' two biggest parties, the Christian Democratic Appeal and Labour Party, lost about two and six percentage points respectively with 93 per cent of the vote counted by Thursday morning, two weeks after their governing coalition collapsed at a national level.
The CDA of Jan Peter Balkenende, the outgoing prime minister, had dropped about two percentage points from 16.83 per cent in 2006.
The PvdA, the strongest party in the last round of municipal polls in 2006 with 23.45 per cent of the vote, now stood at about 16 per cent.
The CDA and PvdA had been in government nationally until January 20, when Wouter Bos, then finance minister and vice premier, withdrew his Labour party from the coalition in a spat over extending the Netherlands' military presence in Afghanistan.
Mr Balkenende now leads an interim government until early national elections brought forward to June 9.
Some 12 million Dutch out of a total population of 16.5 million were registered to vote in Wednesday's elections, viewed as a test of political loyalties and far-Right leanings ahead of national polls.
__________________
He's here!!!!
Details at http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=132151
R.Federer is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios