[scotthongkong]

I hope Jason does well. I really do but I cant help about thinking about a few years and a certain young lady named Oliva Luk.........something who was blooded at 15 and drew Henin. She had the dubious distinction of being hammered 6/0 6/0 in both the Seniors and the Juniors and shortly after fell of the radar. Jason has proven himself in the Juniors so the same will not be true in his case, but my point remains that it can be counter productive to try and bring these people on before they are ready.

[ace ventura]

yeah I hope jason does well too,even though I don't agree with it, I cant attack him personally for it.
What makes me totally sick about Tennis Australia is there predictaions are always at the expense of so many other players.
In 2006, Tiley was quoted as saying Tomic , Verryth and Holland were all potential top 20 players... Wheres Verryths main draw w/c three years on at 18 if Tiley is so willing to stand up and promote so few tennis players.
As now only three years on the band wagon is on Tomic and kubler....
This is why I believe this W/C selection should be done on mens results for a mens main Draw w/c. yes Kubler did great this year in juniors but so have so many others.
Pat Nichols, Steve donald was junior itf 4 in the world, and the list goes on of so much talent in juniors now not playing at all.
I sincerely think TA have lost the plot, the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I thought there purpose for our country might have been to have depth.
Isn't the soul Leyton , enough to prove how important that is.
I just do not get it.

[Matchu]

Originally Posted by ace ventura

I sincerely think TA have lost the plot, the definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I thought there purpose for our country might have been to have depth.

This comment stands out for me because if we look at the Australian Open Aussie WCs results over the last 10 years:

2000
Todd Woodbridge - aged 28 that year, reached the second round.
Dejan Petrovic - aged 22 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Joe Sirianni - aged 25 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Mark Woodforde - aged 35 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Michael Hill - aged 26 that year, knocked out in the second round.
James Sekulov - aged 24 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Scott Draper - aged 26 that year, knocked out in the first round.

2001
Dejan Petrovic - aged 23 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Todd Woodbridge - aged 29 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Alun Jones - aged 21 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Todd Perry - aged 25 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Scott Draper - aged 27 that year, knocked out in the first round.

2002
Jaymon Crabb - aged 24 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Todd Reid - aged 18 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Richard Fromberg - aged 32 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Todd Larkham - aged 28 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Scott Draper - aged 28 that year, knocked out in the first round.

2003
Todd Larkham - aged 29 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Joe Sirianni - aged 28 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Todd Reid - aged 19 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Andrew Ilie - aged 27 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Ryan Henry - aged 19 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Peter Luczak - aged 24 that year, knocked out in the third round.

2004
Todd Larkham - aged 30 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Chris Guccione - aged 19 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Alun Jones - aged 24 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Wayne Arthurs - aged 33 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Peter Luczak - aged 25 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Todd Reid - aged 20 that year, knocked out in the third round.

2005
Paul Baccanello - aged 26 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Todd Reid - aged 21 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Peter Luczak - aged 26 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Marc Kimmich - aged 22 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Chris Guccione - aged 20 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Nathan Healey - aged 25 that year, knocked out in the second round.

2006
Peter Luczak - aged 27 that year, knocked out in the third round.
Nathan Healey aged 26 that year, knocked out in the third round.
Mark Philippoussis - aged 30 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Marc Kimmich - aged 23 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Chris Guccione aged 21 that year, knocked out in the first round.

2007
Wayne Arthurs - aged 36 that year, knocked out in the third round.
Alun Jones - aged 27 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Chris Guccione - aged 22 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Robert Smeets - aged 22 that year, knocked out in the second round.

2008
Joe Sirriani - aged 33 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Robert Smeets - aged 23 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Peter Luczak - aged 29 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Alun Jones - aged 28 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Nick Lindahl - aged 20 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Brydan Klein - aged 19 that year, knocked out in the first round.

2009
Colin Ebelthite - aged 25 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Carsten Ball - aged 22 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Samuel Groth - aged 22 that year, knocked out in the first round.
Bernard Tomic - aged 17 that year, knocked out in the second round.
Brydan Klein - aged 20 that year, knocked out in the second round.

You can see that giving wildcards to "best" players (people with the highest rankings) wasn't really working. In the last ten years no Australian wildcard has made it passed the third round. Changing things this year and giving wildcards to only player under the age of 23 (with the exception of Ebelthite)is something I would commend TA for because obviously giving people in their thirties a wildcard has next to no long term benefits.

It's very likely in ten years time Bernard Tomic and Jason Kubler will still be playing the Australian Open main draw and who knows maybe one of them might even win before then.

[ace ventura]

Ok Matchu, yes good point how ever Luczac is in top 100.
Now it would be interesting to write how many juniors have been touted the next big thing, and how many of them even play any more.

That while this above may not be working, what round do you think kubler will make this year .
What about the players between 16 and 22, are you saying all of them couldn't improve over a couple of years also if they gave this w/c to one of them.
I till think there is a lot of players older than 16, who could be dong stuff over the next four years had they the chance.

Kubler does not have one ATP point, has had very little experience on the mens tour at all.
Now will be playing main draw at AO, who knows could be on centre court like Tomic last year.

Big Call.

[ace ventura]

Matchu why do you say with the exception of Ebelthite.
Also your research does not show how some of these players have still improved a lot , even though they lost first round
after getting w/cs.
Mcenzie won 18s play off last year, Verryth got qually into brisbane, did well in melbourne, and many 18- 23 got qually into aus open, last year wouldn't it make sense to progress those players who still have time to do well also, rather than start with 16 year olds for main draw. ? Maybe research the juniors who were going to be our next big thing as well.
Why does it have to be one extreme to another.? Stick with players longer term, not keep touting one or two. That is risky on that history too.
TA need to find stability and middle ground.

[ace ventura]

Tomic proved t the play off he is the best of the youth up to age 23 , however did kuber prove that.
there is almost of players who are still young , as in under 23 who could still go on and who I would condsider still to be our " best" in youth right now.
Also to o make third round, is no disgrace it is something worth buying a ticket for to cheer any Aussie on. I dont buy tickets to wait up to ten years for someone to maybe win it.
I buy tickets to cheers on the best players we have right now.
What does this say , every one over 16 shouldn't be out there in case they wont win the open in the next ten years.
What does this say everyone over 16 should give up ? because TA believe they have found the two that will ?

[Tenys4ever]

Hey ace Tomic was the finalist - the best of the youth up to age 23 must be Lindahl.
Kubler hasn't proved he is the best of the youth. He lost to Duckworth 60 in the third the other week. Maybe we should give it Duckworth (a year older) - that way we will only have to wait 9 years going on what Matchu says. lol

And going on TA Policy in 10 years time these boys will be 26/27 - way too old - so why should they be given the opportunities denied the boys of that age bracket today?

I want to watch the best players Australia has to offer represent our country at the Aus Open. My opinion - maybe not others - but Kubler does not represent the best Australia has to offer - and to give him this grand prize is unbelievable. How nice for him that everything has just landed on his plate so young. Let's see in the magical 10 years timeframe that has been stipulated where he is then?

[Tenys4ever]

Don't get me wrong - I hope Kubler becomes a great Australian tennis player - nothing would thrill me more - but this TA obsession with throwing them out there so young at the expense of other boys who should be given a chance - just defies all logic.

I would like to say good luck to Kubler in the juniors - i hope he does well and then let's see where he is at. Greg Jones must be feeling a bit hard done by - judging by the criteria of this year he should have been given a md wc - how many Junior Grand slams did he get to the final, semi or quarter in? - quite a few of them I think. Just a couple of years to old now i guess.... what a joke.

[ace ventura]

You are right on that Tenys 4 eva,
and my opinion is TA have lost the plot, RE some one says in this blog Saville will get on next year,,, thats before he has even played the year out.

If Matchu wants to do stats, then Kubler has played how many Mens Futures, let alone grand slams. ?
In those futures he did not get through a round.

So your telling us TA is right to W/C him over players like Jones, Hensel, Millman, Ebden , kelly , Reid, Duckworth, Verryth who was their next big thing ( what happened to the support of him between now and last year ?

This is what I mean by lost the plot.... To over look all these players because there is a prediction going on that he or Tomic will win the Aus Open in next ten years.

Wouldnt it be wise to at least get a few players into the top one 100 and some depth... Oh no we will all sit back now and wait for these guys to win the open.

Ok this is all very sensible.

[save ausdecline]

I reckon as mentioned above TA has lost the plot and gone crazy. I think these wildcard places need to be earned rather than dished out to a minority (juniors). A set of guidelines may need to be set out for players to earn the wildcard. e.g. must have played on men's tour for speicific amount of time and show potential to Tennis Australia scouts. Just like potenitlal socceroos fighting for those WC spots. But on the other hand, as mentioned above there is a lack of depth in our tennis ranks. So this is a period of re-building for tennis in australia and they must look to their juniors.

[Audacity]

Either way you look at it, the WC shouldn't be given to a player (of any age), that cannot qualify or win a first round futures match.

[ace ventura]

It just gets to the point you cant give a toss as Tennis Australia under Craig Tiley have done nothing but keep changing their minds.
They have bum steered the last lot of junior from when he got in 1989 s - 1991s three age groups with a heap of great juniors...
Who they steered down the junior pathway saying that was they way to go. verryth was the o 20 player Tiley touted back then, but they didnt bother
sticking with him or let alone helping the rest in the same way ( which meant NONE of them got developed properly or a got a real chance )

Now they are saying they have the best group of maybe 10 boys,youngsters ever !!, and if any one has the time to do the stats on junior results of that last group v this current group ( apart from maybe kubler and saville ) then you could prove TA very wrong there. They are now saying two players are the next Rafa, that is Jay someone from NSW and Kubler.

RAFA .... Big call again.

All I know is if you are over 16 and want any hope in this game you had better stay as far away from tennis Australia as possible. It seems they have made up their minds who is worth supporting and who isnt and it is all done on age.

I don't believe in Tennis Australia simply by the fact , TILEY was hired to do a job, he put blue courts in all over Australia now he is saying we need to develop on clay

Now we also have the fact they say they have 30 ex players working for them , well go and ask the players who were silly enough to support and PAY for TA squads over the past four years and ask them how much they got to see of ex players. ?

They went on about having a base in Sutton, now wheres that. Player who made there squads four years ago as scholarship holders, full or partial still had to pay , and were told they would get access to these bases overseas, well I dont think many got any of that.

This new group I believe are getting fully funded , on results even yet to come. AIS ... Matchu look these kids up.

If this is rebuilding then great if this time they have it right, but looking at the last lot of juniors they had from four years ago ..... really good players who should be coming through NOW......

well it is a disgrace.

[save ausdecline]

That is a good point ace ventura. it is a disgrace, i agree. im just surprised that this hasn't been in newspaper articles. the controversy surrounding this.

[save ausdecline]

guys look at the example fo robert smeets. at the us open. he was given a wildcard to us open he got double baggelled. so i think the move from TA is desperate. This is a indicator of Ta's lack of depth. TA are now putting all their resources on juniors now and starting to re-build. i just hope something results from this and from looking at both points of view its desperate decision from TA but the only decision which will have most chance on producing a positive outcome. Why give it to old and xp players when resources are being put on them. TA's only choice is to blood these youngsters. They have no choice.

[ace ventura]

The REBUILDING PHASE UNDER CRAIG TILEY ... was meant to BEGIN FOUR YEARS AGO.
Here is list of SOME of the many players he had age 14 to 18 , when he got in.

Lindahl, Donald, Lemke, klein, Jones, Coelho, Nichols, Bouchier, Ley, Lindner, Lee, Reed, Smith, Bellamy, Thomas, Mcnamme, Dixon, Symons, Easton. Rigg, Weightman, Hoagn,
Crow, Bothe, Kelly, Levinski, Klein, Mc Kenzie, Gregory, Goh, Verryth, Peers, Frost, Proppogia, Reid, Marsland, Szacnski, Millman, Chaplin, Banes, Mitchell, Sanders, Queenan,
Hoh, Duckworth, Szabo, Young, Androlio, Maraga, Zelba, Barker, Balakrishnan, leederchard, Cooper, Barton.

SO yeah NOW tennis australia everything will be OK , because Tiley has found ten good boys. !! This was the players that did not get developed well enough as Kubler got Main Draw w/c this week,,

Excuse me now while I go back and support AFL, so over this shit.