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Old 10-17-2005, 10:10 AM   #91
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Red face Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Yep I know his mentality damn sucked and he ruined his chance but I'm still too angry at your fave.You know he has taken timeout 3 times.(Yahoo news and Kiwi's journal mentioned that)It's so disturbed. I at most accept the first time but NEVER stand the last time for requesting off the court to a bathroom.

I like you,Kiwi,Rainer,Jarkko,Paradorn and some in your sig but Andreev.Never.
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:32 AM   #92
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaDiCaLgIrL♥TR
Yep I know his mentality damn sucked and he ruined his chance but I'm still too angry at your fave.You know he has taken timeout 3 times.(Yahoo news and Kiwi's journal mentioned that)It's so disturbed. I at most accept the first time but NEVER stand the last time for requesting off the court to a bathroom.

I like you,Kiwi,Rainer,Jarkko,Paradorn and some in your sig but Andreev.Never.

I can understand you of course. I would probably be angry too if Kiwi had played another player I dont like and had lost that way.
but thats tennis. look at Mary Pierce. as long as such time-outs are allowed everybody can use them! Tennis is more than just playing, its also a huge mental thing these days.
Kiwi got irritated by the time-outs. Federer would not have been. thats the difference.

BTW, I like you too
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Old 10-17-2005, 10:59 AM   #93
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

It was probably even a bit more difficult than in Roland Garros with that crowd. I really thought that the fans in Moscow are fair, it was really disappointing. I couldn't believe it when I saw that the game was suspended for ages at 4-0 and then again at 4-1. I must admit that I couldn't watch the stream with good quality, but even I could see how Andreev jumped around after his "injury" timeouts. I always heard you can take one 3min timeout each set or so, but not 5 minutes, then 10 minutes and so on.

Fitness is imo part of that game and if the 3min timeout is not enough, you have to pay for it.

Robredo took that unfair timeout last year at bp for Gaudio and won the match. I think many posters attacked him after that, but if you compare this to what Andreev did ... and Andreev is even the hero now for the majority here.

There is actually a chance for a RUS vs GER Daviscup QF. Would be nice to get a revenge there.

And I hope they behave better in St. Petersburg.

There are m any examples that a fair cheering for the home player is possible. Just look at Liberec in Daviscup few weeks ago.
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:38 PM   #94
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
I dont know how long that time-out lasted, cause I left watching at 75 30, because I was sure he would win it anyway; when I came back it was 4-4...



so Kiwi should not play French Open as well?

Come on, girls
its not very convincing to say crowd and Igor's timeout were the reasons for Kiwi's loss. He had many chances and just missed them. It would be not good if a former Top10 player would be irritated by a biased crowd and by a time-out taken....
No, the real problem is his mental fragility! He has to work on that. All Germans are head-cases
I agree with you that Kiwi has a mental problem, and maybe it costs him the title. What I don't like is how Igor tried everything he could to get back into the match, and for me, it's not a fair game.

I am not sure if you watched the match or not. I watched the entire match through a very good live-stream, hence I saw every moment in that match. First time out from Igor was in the second set when the score was 0-2. He called the trainer for his knee problem I suppose. First, unless it's really really serious, I don't think it's fair to call a trainer not during a break between 2 games. In my opinion, he should has played another game before calling for a trainer. We know what happened next, Kiwi won the next 2 games, and then somehow he lost his serve to make the score 1-4. Then Igor called for another time-out to threat his back, and then go to the bathroom for god knows how long. In total, I guess it's about 10 minutes break at that score. Kiwi did ask the chair umpire about the length of the break and I don't know what is the rule, but definitely the break should not be allowed for that long. Igor should have been disqualified or at least penalised a game or points. Instead, the umpire lets it happened and ignore Kiwi's concern. This clearly was intended to break Kiwi's momentum by Igor in my eyes and too bad Kiwi let it happened.

I know Kiwi also took a time-out during the match, but the timing was between second and third set. We all know that the players are given a longer break before the final set and if you add up the injury time allowed to be taken by Kiwi, he had clearly not extended the time out allowed to be taken. Again, I am not too sure about the rule, hence I might be wrong.

What really upset me as well was how Igor claimed that he was injured and it was not shown at all in the way he played. Except from several occasion when he missed a shot or lost a point, he touched his back tried to tell us that he has a back problem. Then, the next point, he will play unbelievable point and won it. Not sure about you, but I clearly saw this as faking an injury. I can't believe the way he reacted after winning the match, I mean, how can you still be happy knowing the way you tried to win the match

Sorry if I offended you in many ways. As I said, this is purely how I feel about the match, nothing against you really. Unfortunately, from this match, I would never never able to like or cheer for Igor again. I thought I really dislike Hewitt, now after this, I know it's nothing compared to how I feel about Igor now

Btw, I also like some of your favourites, eg. Tommy
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Old 10-17-2005, 01:30 PM   #95
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
so Kiwi should not play French Open as well?
You can't compare a Grand Slam to an optional even like Moscow in a week with another two tournaments of similiar kind. There are certainly more possibilities to replace Moscow if he doesn't want to come anymore again next year. Also regarding French Open, we have to admit that Kiwi has to blame himself a lot to cause that behaviour of the French crowd back then as he wasn't the most friendly player in that match either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
Come on, girls
its not very convincing to say crowd and Igor's timeout were the reasons for Kiwi's loss. He had many chances and just missed them. It would be not good if a former Top10 player would be irritated by a biased crowd and by a time-out taken....
No, the real problem is his mental fragility! He has to work on that. All Germans are head-cases
The main reason was Kiwi himself because 4-0 has to be carried home, no matter when they start playing again and whatever Andreev is doing and had he been strong enough he would have won it easily. But I still had preferred a normal loss without bad taste and that's what bothers me. Also everybody seems to take it at the most normal thing in the world if Andreev leaves the court for 10 minutes despite getting treatment before already and when Roddick did the same at the Australian Open the whole board slaughtered him for his 10 minute break.
Again, if Kiwi had been strong enough he had won no matter what would have happened yesterday. But this match was still not clean and a good chair umpire with authoriy, not like Grillotti, should have dealt otherwise according to the rules.
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Old 10-17-2005, 01:42 PM   #96
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
I always heard you can take one 3min timeout each set or so, but not 5 minutes, then 10 minutes and so on.
Normally it's one medical time (examination and 3 minute treatment) each match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
Robredo took that unfair timeout last year at bp for Gaudio and won the match. I think many posters attacked him after that, but if you compare this to what Andreev did ... and Andreev is even the hero now for the majority here.
Many people attacked Robredo because they thought he faked it. But unlike Andreev getting treatment here and there more than once, the timeout itself by Robredo was the first of the match and according to rules he may take it anytime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
There is actually a chance for a RUS vs GER Daviscup QF. Would be nice to get a revenge there.
would be away, right? Not good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMG
There are m any examples that a fair cheering for the home player is possible. Just look at Liberec in Daviscup few weeks ago.
I don't blame an away crowd for cheering maybe a few times on important points (break point, 30-30, deuce) during a match when a player hits a first serve fault; this can happen in many places if the home crowd is eager for their own player to win. But applauding first serve faults for three seconds when the foreign player is missing a serve at 15-0 or 15-15 is pretty stupid.
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Old 10-17-2005, 02:02 PM   #97
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kfh_9118
Sorry if I offended you in many ways. As I said, this is purely how I feel about the match, nothing against you really. Unfortunately, from this match, I would never never able to like or cheer for Igor again. I thought I really dislike Hewitt, now after this, I know it's nothing compared to how I feel about Igor now

Btw, I also like some of your favourites, eg. Tommy
I dont feel offended
thats a discussion and everybody has his opinion. I dont like discussions where everybody has the same opinion....

I never said Igor won this match; Kiwi lost it and thats the way it was
I am also not proud of Igor doing these time-outs, but its allowed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
I don't blame an away crowd for cheering maybe a few times on important points (break point, 30-30, deuce) during a match when a player hits a first serve fault; this can happen in many places if the home crowd is eager for their own player to win. But applauding first serve faults for three seconds when the foreign player is missing a serve at 15-0 or 15-15 is pretty stupid.
As a pro player you have to live with biased crowds. Thats one part of tennis. I dont say I find it good what the crowd in Moscow did, but its understandable. Patriotism is a big topic in Russia.
There was a report on the WTA board from an ITF tournamnet in China where foreign players were treated really bad by the crowd.
Or imagine Ivan Ljubicic would play an important match against Djokovic in Serbia.
Think about all the fans from Chile during world team cup; The emotional Sania Mirza fans

YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT AS A PRO!!!!

Quote:
Again, if Kiwi had been strong enough he had won no matter what would have happened yesterday. But this match was still not clean and a good chair umpire with authoriy, not like Grillotti, should have dealt otherwise according to the rules.
There are many umpires who are useless. who never overrule. who never do something against bad behavior. thats a big problem I agree
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Old 10-17-2005, 02:45 PM   #98
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illinuera
I am also not proud of Igor doing these time-outs, but its allowed
it was allowed, but I don't think it is allowed by the rules because there is only medical timeout per match. That's what I'm saying and why this match has a bad aftertaste for me.
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Old 10-17-2005, 05:57 PM   #99
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

If I'm not mistaken, you can have multiple injury timeouts in a match but you can't be treated for the same injury. So I can have a timeout for an elbow for 3 minutes and then the next 3 minutes use it for a shoulder injury for a total of 6 minutes plus add a bathroom timeout etc...for a total of 10 minutes.

Mary Pierce did this exactly in the US Open semi's.
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Old 10-17-2005, 06:50 PM   #100
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Default Re: KIWI in Moscow!!! Kremlin Cup 2005!

You're right, kek. I've taken a look at the rules and it states that a medical time-out can be approved "for each medical condition". So if you have wrist, shoulder, elbow, ankle, back and knee problems you could theoretically be awarded a time-out each time, if I am right about that. So if Andreev first got treatment for his knee and then for his back, it could have been legal.
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