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View Poll Results: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Yes, I'm a Theist (Believe in holy revelation via a "Holy Book") 57 19.52%
Yes, I'm a Deist (Believe in God based upon the existence of the Universe and evolved life) 40 13.70%
Perhaps, I'm Agnostic (As there is conflicting, or a lack of, evidence you just don't know) 73 25.00%
No, I'm an Atheist (science will eventually understand the origins of the Big Bang/Universe) 122 41.78%
Voters: 292. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-28-2013, 06:48 PM   #706
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Second option for me.
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Old 12-05-2013, 08:17 AM   #707
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avi13 View Post
I do not follow any Religion.

But,i do believe there is a "God".
This sympton of people needing a "God", or a superior form of life, is just based on our own fears of ourselves and the world. Because people cannot explain the world with logic and methodic approach, they turn to "God".

The human species can be so sad... I cannot stand the laziness of turning into something as abstract as it is easy to accept. You take the religion information, you swallow it and start believing because it is the easiest way.
Questioning nature with a non-deistic approach, a more scientific, or at least rational, is clearly the most difficult but appropriate, and serves the only cause that needs to be served: the understanding of our nature and surrounding. Gods certainly aren't in our sperms/ovums or spores.


The imagery surrounding religion is often stunning and bloodily amazing, but it is the fruit of the imagination of some men who wanted to rule the world. Don't take it any further!
And I won't even talk about all the negative aspects: too much blood because of those Gods, women inferior to men, poor education, the oppression on the different sexualities (which all exist outside the Human species), superiority of race/people because their own God is superior, etc.
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:33 AM   #708
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by MachineGun View Post
This sympton of people needing a "God", or a superior form of life, is just based on our own fears of ourselves and the world. Because people cannot explain the world with logic and methodic approach, they turn to "God".
Superior form of life could easily exist in the universe or outside of it, I don't see anything that would prevent such possibility. And that superior form would definitely look like a "god" to us, whether it would really be the god people expect it to be or completely unrelated.
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:02 AM   #709
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineGun View Post
This sympton of people needing a "God", or a superior form of life, is just based on our own fears of ourselves and the world. Because people cannot explain the world with logic and methodic approach, they turn to "God".

The human species can be so sad... I cannot stand the laziness of turning into something as abstract as it is easy to accept. You take the religion information, you swallow it and start believing because it is the easiest way.
Questioning nature with a non-deistic approach, a more scientific, or at least rational, is clearly the most difficult but appropriate, and serves the only cause that needs to be served: the understanding of our nature and surrounding. Gods certainly aren't in our sperms/ovums or spores.


The imagery surrounding religion is often stunning and bloodily amazing, but it is the fruit of the imagination of some men who wanted to rule the world. Don't take it any further!
And I won't even talk about all the negative aspects: too much blood because of those Gods, women inferior to men, poor education, the oppression on the different sexualities (which all exist outside the Human species), superiority of race/people because their own God is superior, etc.

You got that backwards, people or societies who don't believe in god are the most fear ridden by default. Their world revolves around them. They are so full of themselves that they see everything as a threat. Hence people who don't believe in god are afraid of everything from bacteria to the sun and everything in between.
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:23 AM   #710
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Nolesaurus View Post
You got that backwards, people or societies who don't believe in god are the most fear ridden by default. Their world revolves around them. They are so full of themselves that they see everything as a threat. Hence people who don't believe in god are afraid of everything from bacteria to the sun and everything in between.

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Old 01-01-2014, 09:50 PM   #711
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nolesaurus View Post
You got that backwards, people or societies who don't believe in god are the most fear ridden by default. Their world revolves around them. They are so full of themselves that they see everything as a threat. Hence people who don't believe in god are afraid of everything from bacteria to the sun and everything in between.
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Old 01-03-2014, 02:24 PM   #712
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

I am always annoyed at people who label themselves as agnostic when what they really mean is atheist. The hint is in the word: "a-theist". If you are not a theist (i.e. do not positively believe there is a God), then you are an atheist.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:37 PM   #713
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

No.

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Originally Posted by Slade View Post
So I'm still an atheist and don't see any reason to believe in a God.

What's the most convincing argument for a higher power these days? Cosmological argument? Fine tuning?

The closest thing to a deity that I worship would be the Sun, because at least there is proof it exists and without it there is no human life as we know it.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:53 AM   #714
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

Widespread atheism is a sign of the Dark Age, the Age of Lies, the Kali Yuga. I long for the day when Lord Kalki, destroyer of darkness, will cleanse the world of your ignorance.

At the end of Kali Yuga, when there exist no topics on the subject of God, even at the residences of so-called saints and respectable gentlemen, and when the power of government is transferred to the hands of ministers elected from the evil men, and when nothing is known of the techniques of sacrifice, even by word, at that time the Lord will appear as the supreme chastiser.
—Bhagavata Purana, 2.7.38

When there is incest, adultery, atheism, hatred of religion, no more dharma, and sin everywhere, the impossible Iron Age has come; in what way the world will be saved? For the helpless, the Lord Himself will manifest as the Supreme Purusha. He will be called the Kalki incarnation and will be glorious like a lion coming down from heaven.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:24 AM   #715
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
Widespread atheism is a sign of the Dark Age, the Age of Lies, the Kali Yuga. I long for the day when Lord Kalki, destroyer of darkness, will cleanse the world of your ignorance.

At the end of Kali Yuga, when there exist no topics on the subject of God, even at the residences of so-called saints and respectable gentlemen, and when the power of government is transferred to the hands of ministers elected from the evil men, and when nothing is known of the techniques of sacrifice, even by word, at that time the Lord will appear as the supreme chastiser.
—Bhagavata Purana, 2.7.38

When there is incest, adultery, atheism, hatred of religion, no more dharma, and sin everywhere, the impossible Iron Age has come; in what way the world will be saved? For the helpless, the Lord Himself will manifest as the Supreme Purusha. He will be called the Kalki incarnation and will be glorious like a lion coming down from heaven.
- Sri Dasam Granth

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Old 04-04-2014, 02:29 AM   #716
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In his book Spiritual Authority and Temporal Power, René Guénon writes:

Almong almost all peoples and throughout diverse epochs – and with mounting frequency as we approach our times – the wielders of temporal power have tried [...] to free themselves from all superior authority, claiming to hold their power from themselves alone

This revolt, writes René Guénon, is manifested by an inability to know all the implications of pure transcendence, a knowledge specific to the spiritual authority; it marks the birth of particular naturalistic tendencies to varying degrees, by the inability to recognize superior principles to the natural laws of manifestation. This gives rise to a deviated doctrine and an attitude "- condemnable though it may be as regards the truth – not altogether devoid of a certain grandeur" and...

[which] could be characterized quite exactly by the designation 'Luciferianism', which must not be confused with 'Satanism', although there is doubtless a certain connection between the two: 'Luciferianism' is the refusal to recognize a superior authority whereas 'Satanism' is the reversal of normal relationships and of the hierarchical order, the latter being often a consequence of the former, just as after his fall Lucifer became Satan.

In his book The reign of quantity and the signs of the times, as well as in some other articles, René Guénon describes in what sense one can identify a source to the influences of dissolution that must be exercised to the maximum in the human realm before the onset of a new cycle. This source, which he describes as "the most redoutable of all the possibilities" included in the cyclic manifestation, is related to the Koranic nomenclature of awliyâ esh-Shaytân (literally "Satan's saints"); it refers to the existence of a counter-hierarchy "apparently opposite" to the true spiritual hierarchy (called "awliyâ er-Rahman"). Guénon introduces the term 'counter-initiation' to describe it:

'counter-initiation' [...] cannot be regarded as a purely human invention, such as would be in no way distinguishable by its nature from plain 'pseudo-initiation'; in fact it is much more than that, and, in order that it may really be so, it must in a certain sense, so far as its actual origin is concerned, proceed from the unique source to which all initiation is attached, the very source from which, speaking more generally, anything in our world that manifests a 'non-human' element proceeds; but the 'counter-initiation' proceeds from that source by a degeneration carried to its extreme limits, and that limit is represented by the 'inversion' that constitutes 'satanism' properly so-called.

Guénon distinguishes two phases in the action of 'counter-initiation', the first being purely negative and devoted to the destruction of everything authentically traditional in the human realm, a phase that culminated in the kind of materialism that could be called 'integral'. But that latter phase is only a preparatory one, destined to be followed toward the setting up of something that can more appropriately be called a 'counter-tradition', which is yet to come before the end of the Kali-Yuga. These two phases are contemplated by Guénon using the symbolism of solve & coagula taken from alchemy. In the 'counter-tradition', the role to be played by the 'counter-initiation' is referred to by Guénon in the following terms: "after having worked in the shadows to inspire and direct invisibly all modern movements, it will in the end contrive to 'exteriorize', if that is the right word, something that will be as it were the counterpart of a true tradition, at least as completely and as exactly as it can be so within the limitations necessarily inherent in all possible counterfeits as such".

About "false spirituality", the term refers also to beings involved in the 'counter-initiation' and engaged in 'inverted realization' and who lose themselves in a way that can only end, in the extreme cases, at last in the total 'disintegration' of the conscious being and in its final dissolution, "thus realizing the inverse of the effacement of the 'ego' before the 'Self', or, in others words, realizing confusion in 'chaos' as against fusion in principal Unity". A finality so conclusive represents only an exceptional case, which is that of awliyâ esh-Shaytân, but the goal of 'counter-tradition' will be to divert as many as possible from true spiritual path. 'Neo-spiritualism' and the 'pseudo-initiation' proceeding from it were only, writes Guénon, "a partial 'prefiguration' of the 'counter-tradition'", notably in their utilization of elements authentically traditional in their origin, "perverted from their true meaning". But this perversion "is only a move in the direction of the complete reversal that must characterize the 'counter-tradition'".

This "false spirituality" should be expressed, according to René Guénon, even in the social field through the establishment of a "counter-order" opposed to the traditional notion of Sanctum Regnum (whose motto is Ordo ab Chao), and run at unprecedented scale in human history according to traditional data. When such a counter-order will be about to appear, Guénon writes that modern social concepts for human organization inherited from the first phase of the antitraditional action such as "egalitarism" and other similar ideals will be abandoned in favor of the setting up of a "counter-elite" and the reintroduction of "counter-values" which will form the social basis for the 'counter-tradition'. Symbolism itself will be subverted by the counter-initiation through subversion of inherent double meanings of its constitutive elements, according to a complex notion exposited in chapter 30 of The reign of quantity and the sign of times. He identified, in some undercurrents manifested from the seventeenth century and continued throughout nineteenth and twentieth centuries, the premises of this final phase of dissolution.

The reign of the 'counter-tradition', writes Guénon, is identical to the traditional notion designated by the 'reign of the Antichrist', whichever way this latter symbol is understood, either as an individual or a collectivity. In a certain sense it could be both, as there will be a collectivity that will appear as the 'exteriorization' of the 'counter-initiatic' organization itself when it finally appears in the light of day, "and there must also be a person who will be at the head of the collectivity, and as such be the most complete expression and even the very 'incarnation' of what it will represent, if only in the capacity of 'support' to all the malefic influences that he will first concentrate in himself and then project onto the world".

Guénon precises that he can therefore be regarded as the chief of the awliyâ esh-Shaytân, it can be said that he will be as it were their "seal" (khâtem), according to the terminology of Islamic esoterism. He will be an 'imposter' (this is the meaning of the word dajjal by which he is designated in Arabic), since his reign will be the 'great parody' in its complete form, the 'satanic' imitation and caricature of everything that is truly traditional. The Antichrist can adopt the very symbols of the Messiah, "using them of course in an inverted sense". In the same way, "there can be and must be a strange resemblance between the designations of the Messiah (El-Mesîha in Arabic) and of the Antichrist (El-Mesîkh)". Here, writes Guénon, there is an untranslatable double meaning: Mesîkh can be taken as a deformation of Mesîha, by the mere addition of a dot to the final letter; but at the same time the first word means 'deformed', which correctly expresses the character of the Antichrist.
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:26 AM   #717
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

I never thought I would see someone with a Savitri Devi avatar on this forum. Kudos!
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Old 04-04-2014, 03:46 AM   #718
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

I did, when Rosol beat Rafa

But seriously, the way I see it; both sides, atheism and theism, are claiming two things - that there isn't a god and that there is, respectively. With no way of gathering evidence, I see both sides as inherently non-falsifiable hypothesis, and really, if you watch any debates, they generally center around the hypothetical or philosophical. I think religion has a lot to offer, in terms of morals, in terms of history that can be derived, but as to its veracity when it comes to divinity, I don't think anyone can be sure.


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Old 04-04-2014, 05:25 AM   #719
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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I did, when Rosol beat Rafa

But seriously, the way I see it; both sides, atheism and theism, are claiming two things - that there isn't a god and that there is, respectively. With no way of gathering evidence, I see both sides as inherently non-falsifiable hypothesis, and really, if you watch any debates, they generally center around the hypothetical or philosophical. I think religion has a lot to offer, in terms of morals, in terms of history that can be derived, but as to its veracity when it comes to divinity, I don't think anyone can be sure.

In this moment, he is euphoric, not because of any phony god, but, because he is enlightened by his own intelligence
Religion does offer some good things, true. But seriously, there is still not a SINGLE piece of evidence that suggests a God, and especially not a God of any popular religion.

I ask the question again. As of April 4, 2014 what is the best argument for a God existing, and which God might that be?
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:23 PM   #720
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Default Re: Do You Believe In A "God"?

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I am always annoyed at people who label themselves as agnostic when what they really mean is atheist. The hint is in the word: "a-theist". If you are not a theist (i.e. do not positively believe there is a God), then you are an atheist.
I know you posted this a long time ago, but the label "agonstic" serves a necessary purpose. "Atheist" has connotations of someone who actively disbelieves in God, and rightly or wrongly many people do not want to have to choose in such a black and white manner. Perhaps the word "atheist" has been distorted in meaning but if "agnostic" was not a label then the topic becomes even more divisive than it already is, which isn't fair on those who genuinely haven't made their minds up about their belief.
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