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Old 10-27-2013, 09:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post


Murray could never beat Peak Federer in a slam, he had to wait until 2013 to finally do it, he couldn't even beat 2008-2011 Federer when he wasn't already at his 2004-2007 level. Safin beat him in 2005 in a slam, but yeah, Federer had an easier time with him than with Murray in draws.
Murray has a winning head to head. Murray's issue was simply mental in slams against the Rog. Andy also beat Federer at the Olympics in straights sets in a best of 5 in less that two hours (conceding just seven games). Nobody has thrashed the Swiss on grass like that before. If you listen to what Fed said afterwards, that defeat hurt him massively (more than a slam defeat).

The Scot also beat Federer this year in Australia, when the level from Rog was miles higher that it has been since. You could also say that Murray started beating Fed in big title matches once he began to reach his peak. Federer got lucky playing an undercooked and not quite developed Andy for years. Now the boot is on the other foot - and Murray gets to play an ageing Fed.

You cannot simply dismiss Murray's wins against Federer.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:51 PM   #32
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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Originally Posted by ClutchOnandWin View Post
Hewitt > del Potro

You said Hewitt was better than DelPOtro, which is sheer stupid.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:53 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

If Murray had an image as good as Safin, a more dynamic game and a more electric personality, I'm sure we wouldn't even be having this conversation. He's undervalued. I still laugh when people still call him a pusher. Even before Llendl brought out his more aggressive side, he wasn't a pusher.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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Originally Posted by Rychu View Post
They have more consistent results, and whether Murray is better than Hewitt or Safin is still debatable. He needs to win more in the upcoming years
No it's not. He IS better. FACT.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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Originally Posted by ClutchOnandWin View Post
I just burried my head in my desk.

You think Juan Carlos Ferrero was a better player than Del Potro?

You have got to be crapping me?
Ferrero had a 1-2 Grand Slam final record, 0-1 WTF final record, 4-2 Masters final record, and a career high of #1. Del Potro has a 1-0 Grand Slam final record, 0-1 WTF final record, 0-3 Masters final record, and a career high of #4. Please enlighten me how exactly you think Del Potro is a better player.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

You have Safin who has only reached the Semi Finals of a Slam just 7 times in his career and Hewitt 8 times in his career, Murray, Novak and Nadal easily trump that, hell even Murray has been in 7 finals. This is in the supposedly "weak era" when Fed dominated all so what does that say about the current Era? Yes its strong and one of, if not the best ever. I dont think there is an argument atall here. Certainly between Murray, Nadal and Djokovic v Safin and Hewitt. Del Potro is a different story.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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Originally Posted by emotion View Post
Ferrero had a 1-2 Grand Slam final record, 0-1 WTF final record, 4-2 Masters final record, and a career high of #1. Del Potro has a 1-0 Grand Slam final record, 0-1 WTF final record, 0-3 Masters final record, and a career high of #4. Please enlighten me how exactly you think Del Potro is a better player.
I don't care about the record man!!!!!!!!!! Look at the era he's playing in?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOOK!

Nadal. Greatest ever on clay, he's barely lost 10 times in his entire career on the surface.

Djokovic. Stupid record unbeaten in 2011, with that streak on hardcourts, won everything and didn't just beat his opponents, demolished them.

Federer. The GOAT and an allrounder on every surface.

Ferrero won a slam on his favourite clay without anyone exceptional to get past. He reached the US Open final, again without facing anyone world class. You are comparing stats that are so bloody misleading because the quality and depth of men's tennis during ferrero's time wasn't as good as it is now.

Ferrero was a somewhat world class mover on the slower surfaces with a decent weaponary forehand. He was a good grinder, but chuck him in today's game and he'd barely squeeze the top 10. Del Potro has a thunderous forehand and a thunderous serve, both exceptional and world class shots which we saw completely took apart nadal at shanghai only last month. Ferrero would not get anywhere near nadal or djokovic with his game, or federer or murray. He looked better than he was because of the standard that was around at the time. Big fish in a small pond. All respect to him but there was nothing outstanding about his game and unquestionably overachieved in his career.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:08 PM   #38
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

1. I don't believe in the use of era arguments during GOAT debates
2. If a GOAT exists (debatable), Fed is (currently) the GOAT

With those two points out of the way, I still think comparing individual players from different time frames is fun

Nole > Safin + Hewitt + Rodduck + Nalby combined. You are free to add any other players from that era (besides Fed of course ) to the right hand side and the inequality still holds.

Andy > Safin (or) Hewitt even at this point in his career. By the end of his career, I think Andy > Safin + Hewitt + Rodduck combined. He has OG and enough masters already, winning 3 more slams and a couple of WTF titles before he hangs up his boots is definitely not impossible.

Also, I believe by the time Delpo finishes his career, his resume will be comparable (most probably significantly better) to those of Safin/Hewitt.

Finally, comparing Rafa to those transitional champions would be insulting. Nole's current resume is the cutoff for a player to be even discussed in the same line as Rafa.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:10 PM   #39
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

If Ferrer was around at Ferrero's time he would have won the French Open!
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:11 PM   #40
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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If Ferrer was around at Ferrero's time he would have won the French Open!
Ferrer was around at Ferrero's time.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:13 PM   #41
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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Ferrer was around at Ferrero's time.
This. Ferrer hasn't been outside the top 100 since 2002.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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You have Safin who has only reached the Semi Finals of a Slam just 7 times in his career and Hewitt 8 times in his career, Murray, Novak and Nadal easily trump that, hell even Murray has been in 7 finals. This is in the supposedly "weak era" when Fed dominated all so what does that say about the current Era? Yes its strong and one of, if not the best ever. I dont think there is an argument atall here. Certainly between Murray, Nadal and Djokovic v Safin and Hewitt. Del Potro is a different story.
And what is left of the field if you subtract Murray, Djokovic, Nadal and Federer? I can hear the tumbleweeds. Ten years ago if you subtracted Federer, Hewitt, Agassi and Ferrero, you still had players left like Moya, Safin, Roddick, Costa, Johansson, Kuerten - all slam winners.

I know it must feel great to think that we are witnessing the strongest era in the history of tennis, but the truth is we are not. We are merely witnessing (or have witnessed) the continuous dominance of four players. And those things are not by any means the same.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

Del Potro beat federer at the us open in 2009 in 5 sets in fed's attempt to win his 6th us open crown in a row. Are you actually being serious? This isn't even a debate.

Atleast Safin is mildly debatable as the bloke had some big weapons but Ferrero was just a mentally tough grinder. He's a poorman's ferrer.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:19 PM   #44
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

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Originally Posted by ClutchOnandWin View Post
Del Potro beat federer at the us open in 2009 in 5 sets in fed's attempt to win his 6th us open crown in a row. Are you actually being serious? This isn't even a debate.

Atleast Safin is mildly debatable as the bloke had some big weapons but Ferrero was just a mentally tough grinder. He's a poorman's ferrer.
I'm sorry but Ferrero is in a higher order compared to Ferrer - in terms of talent, achievement, mentality, playing style and personality.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:20 PM   #45
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Default Re: Why do Fed fans deem Hewitt, A Rod and Saffin compared to Murray, Djoko and Nadal

Infact I believe there are very few people who have made the Semi's in all 4 grand slam tournaments in the same year, 7 people I think it may be, well Murray, Nadal, Roger and Djokovic are 4 of those people which just shows you how consistently good they are.
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