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Old 09-22-2013, 04:55 AM   #31
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

For what it's worth, this thread should not be hijacked and turned into a discussion on the economy and whether there are jobs. It's a very small factor in what the article is about. It's more about the culture/worldview of young people today, and while the economy will do it's part in shaping that, it's not the only factor.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:47 AM   #32
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
So much focus on loans and houses and careers... Happiness is a state of mind, like the article says being able to dream yet at the same time appreciate what you have. Clichéd as that may be, it's the truth.
^ Absolutely.
Those who focus on money and material things and 'social status' will always be insecure and unhappy on the most meaningful level.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #33
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
That statement would be hysterical were it not for the growing number of impoverished people in North America, especially the US. Keep reading your funny papers for economic data. I'm done with you.
Facts are clearly of no interest to you. Don't read the papers, just look around you.
But if you do not read the funny papers, where do you get your information? Do you travel around the US and personally survey everyone?
I suspect you are just frustrated when someone replies that your posts are just opinions without facts.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #34
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Are you aware that Detroit has gone from being one of the most prosperous and productive cities in the USA to a ghost town because of shipping work overseas?
Really? And not because they were making inferior products?
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:32 AM   #35
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
For what it's worth, this thread should not be hijacked and turned into a discussion on the economy and whether there are jobs. It's a very small factor in what the article is about. It's more about the culture/worldview of young people today, and while the economy will do it's part in shaping that, it's not the only factor.
Did you even read the article that is the basis of this thread? The entire article is about careers. Or, in another word, JOBS.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:28 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Facts are clearly of no interest to you. Don't read the papers, just look around you.
But if you do not read the funny papers, where do you get your information? Do you travel around the US and personally survey everyone?
I suspect you are just frustrated when someone replies that your posts are just opinions without facts.
Buddy, traveling around and talking to people is a funny idea. What would a few personal anecdotes tell you about the economic landscape of North America?

This is deja vu. I asked you to post economic data a few months ago when you were making the same claims (that middle and lower classes were doing better than in the past), you never did. Your arguments are against popular opinion not mine.

And no, I hardly find your claims frustrating, just loco

Here, I'll break the ice, a light read for you:

Foreign Trade and Outsourcing

This article only documents the job losses due to the trade deficit with China, excluding all the other sweatshop countries around the world. Since 2001, the USA has lost almost 3 million jobs to China alone. A country's manufacturing base is it's heart, not McJobs, or dog-walking as you say (LMAO).

http://www.epi.org/publication/bp345...-deficit-cost/

"Since China entered the World Trade Organization in 2001, the extraordinary growth of trade between China and the United States has had a dramatic effect on U.S. workers and the domestic economy, though in neither case has this effect been beneficial. The United States is piling up foreign debt and losing export capacity, and the growing trade deficit with China has been a prime contributor to the crisis in U.S. manufacturing employment. Between 2001 and 2011, the trade deficit with China eliminated or displaced more than 2.7 million U.S. jobs, over 2.1 million of which (76.9 percent) were in manufacturing. These lost manufacturing jobs account for more than half of all U.S. manufacturing jobs lost or displaced between 2001 and 2011."

And these job losses just keep piling up year after year until it's all gone...Waaah? SOMEONE FIND A CORK FOR THE DAMN THING !! LOL.



The extinction of the middle class in the USA.

(Buddy Holly, the middle class are the people outside your gated community or ranch, they and the lower classes make up most of the country, go talk to them instead of your country club friends )

More Evidence That America's Middle Class Is Sliding Toward the Third World

http://www.alternet.org/hard-times-u...rd-third-world

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Really? And not because they were making inferior products?
The 80s auto industry saw its dark days because of complacency, that's for sure. Nevertheless, the entire north east region of North America (the industrial center of the continent) has seen much of its industry shipped overseas in order to reduce labor costs on already profitable products, because of corporate greed.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:48 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
For what it's worth, this thread should not be hijacked and turned into a discussion on the economy and whether there are jobs. It's a very small factor in what the article is about. It's more about the culture/worldview of young people today, and while the economy will do it's part in shaping that, it's not the only factor.
Feel free to lead the way by providing talking points. Take the bull by the horns . This will keep us economic hijacker/jihadists at bay Otherwise get some popcorn and enjoy the show we're providing .

A popular American election slogan is "it's the economy stupid." It really is.

If gen y is gainfully employed, they will have less time to complain about losing their BFF's on facebook. See how this works? It's a vicious circle.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:12 PM   #38
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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The 80s auto industry saw its dark days because of complacency, that's for sure. Nevertheless, the entire north east region of North America (the industrial center of the continent) has seen much of its industry shipped overseas in order to reduce labor costs on already profitable products, because of corporate greed.
Doesn't matter, they were still making crappy cars. When Fiat took over Chrysler they repaid their debts and started making profit in record time, and now Chrysler is one of the best parts of Fiat group.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:36 PM   #39
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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(Buddy Holly, the middle class are the people outside your gated community or ranch, they and the lower classes make up most of the country, go talk to them instead of your country club friends )

.
OK, there is really no point conversing with someone so juvenile and irrational.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:09 PM   #40
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Doesn't matter, they were still making crappy cars. When Fiat took over Chrysler they repaid their debts and started making profit in record time, and now Chrysler is one of the best parts of Fiat group.
The auto industry was only the tip of the iceberg in the heyday of american manufacturing. No one will argue that various american made goods are inferior in quality to chinese. My parents own a freezer made by GE in 1960, still runs like a charm, whereas they have replaced the "higher end" 90s appliances made in china. No one can argue that quality products cannot be produced in NA. Again, the reasons that the bulk of production is being moved overseas is profit margins, not quality.

These individual anecdotes are besides the point though. The point is local employment. For example, we had a thing called the "autopact" which simply required that for every car sold in NA, one had to be produced here (this was in the day when the CAW and UAW had much more power). This has been scrapped, and now both the cars and auto parts can be produced anywhere without any tariffs at all. It's ironic that the labour portion of COGS for cars here is only 6%, and yet enormous pressure is put on the unions to make concessions (elimination of pensions, lower wages, more work etc). To a faceless corporation, lowering the labour from 6% to 3% is desirable, without any consideration for social justice, and corporate responsibility.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:11 PM   #41
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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OK, there is really no point conversing with someone so juvenile and irrational.
This is how you backed out last time too. Why throw the baby out with the bath water? I ignore the silly things you say too.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:43 PM   #42
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Again, the reasons that the bulk of production is being moved overseas is profit margins, not quality.
Not quite. One of the Chrysler's main problems was the abysmal quality which you claim it's not the issue. Apple moved iPhone to China for a bunch of reasons not just profit, there's that famous article in NYT about it and so on.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:01 PM   #43
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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Not quite. One of the Chrysler's main problems was the abysmal quality which you claim it's not the issue. Apple moved iPhone to China for a bunch of reasons not just profit, there's that famous article in NYT about it and so on.
That my be. The russians also do rockets better than the americans.

We could point to GM's Buick brand consistently topping quality surveys year after year. Today, the big 3, after smartening up, are neck and neck with Toyota. What I'm arguing once again is that the bulk of manufacturing does not always need to chase cheaper labour opportunities overseas, disenfranchising an entire demographic of people. Most widgets can be produced at home.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:14 AM   #44
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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...Another trend is the cheapening of labour as Mr. Oracle pointed out. It is clear the standard of living the system is able to support is going down.
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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Why is it clear? Everything I read tells me the standard of living keeps getting better, while people keep predicting it must get worse. This has been going on for 200 years and things are still getting better.
from The Economist, July 27, 2013, "Obama and the Middle Class: Better off with Barack?"



The situation is different in the developing world where there is a growing, increasingly prosperous middle class population. But I think the debate is about the Gen Y, which tend to be a western population, if not an (North) American one.

If any of you are interested in Income/Wealth Inequality, check out Prof. Emmanuel Saez at UC Berkeley. He is currently doing some of the best research on the subject, looking at the data in a way that hadn't been done before (amazingly enough). Many of his papers are available below and they are quite accessible - not a lot of high level math needed.

http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:49 PM   #45
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Default Re: Why Gen Y yuppies are unhappy

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The situation is different in the developing world where there is a growing, increasingly prosperous middle class population. But I think the debate is about the Gen Y, which tend to be a western population, if not an (North) American one.
There was no stipulation that the Gen Y is a US population. Some posters make everything about the US, seemingly so that they can whine.
Sure there has been a downturn in income as a result of the 2007 recession, but in the big picture recessions are part of the economic cycle. There are always dips in income after recessions. But your chart showing household incomes in the US of around $52,000 are a long way from the third world and a very long way from a population working for slave wages. In fact, they are among the best in the world. Using these numbers to make such claims are preposterous and just illustrate the writer's desire to seize on anything if it means the US can be blamed. And maybe to feel a little better about having someone to blame for not being satisfied with things.
I am not an economist, but if I check "Household Income" on Wikipedia I find that as regards mean disposable household income, the US leads the world. I would assume that a "mean" figure would be a good way to define middle class income. And disposable is a measure of what people actually have to spend on themselves.
No doubt when the next recession rolls around the sky will be falling all over again.
And I do not really see the need to always speak of incomes and income inequality in the same breath. There are even studies that suggest that income equality is a good thing for an economy as a whole. It spurs creativeness and invention. But of course, for some people, that will always be called greed.
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