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Old 08-15-2013, 11:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
A somewhat well known cuban dissident visited my country last week. She met some of the right and centre political leaders to denounce the horror of cuba. then she left the country to go back to cuba where she was well received.

Doesn't quite sound like the Cuban "prison" is going to be in "total control over your life" if you can go back freely there in spite of your public criticism.
And her name is? Yoani Sanchez maybe? And the source of the report that she was well received? And your comment on how many years she was held in the prison against her will before being allowed out? The only report I have found says that on arrival in Havana she was well received by her husband and son. Is that what you were referring to?

Were you one of the Che t-shirt wearing brigade that attempted to shout her down at various stops throughout South America? At protests promoted by Cuban agents.

Many people reasonably believe that Yoani was allowed out on her 21st attempt because she is opposed to the embargo and hopefully would actually be a spokesperson for the Raul regime. Her permission to leave was just window dressing by a government that can now point to her as an example of how free Cuba is. Something you are anxious to have evidence of. But having learned that she has a son and husband in Havana it is now clear to me why she returned. I am sure the foreign groups who funded her trip could also have funded tickets for her husband and son, but that would never happen under the regime.

But perhaps more telling of all is that within Cuba most Cubans have never heard of Yoani and have no idea who she is. How could they, when they are denied access to the internet and unable to read her blogs or any international media reports on her dissent?

A Cuban who worked for me, a trusted Party member, was sent to Chile in a work programme. Meaning most of his salary had to be sent to Fidel. When he realised that Chile was the best future for his family and refused to return to Cuba when the Party recalled him, his brother in Havana was fired from his job.
Yes, I know all about what it means for Cubans to travel "freely", when they have family held as hostages inside the prison.

I have read your recent expression of solidarity with the "Madres de la Plaza" in Buenos Aires." Let's hear about your solidarity with the even braver "Damas en blanco" in Cuba, who are constantly abused by the police and Communist Party for their stand on human rights.

Will you be posting from Cuba? That would be interesting.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:19 AM   #17
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by Kiedis View Post
Translate this for your american lova', please

http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2013/05/...05_577370.html
I am totally literate in Spanish, thank you.

Sounds like those Cubans are in the same situation as many Spaniards, these days. And I am well aware of the syndrome where, after a lifetime of being told that the government makes all the decisions, it becomes impossible to actually decide for yourself.
When we brought Cubans to Toronto for a conference and told them they had the afternoon free to explore the city, they stayed in their rooms. Without a programmed afternoon they were at a loss at what to do. Sounds weird to us perhaps, but true.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
And her name is? Yoani Sanchez maybe?
No. This time around it was Rosa María Paya.

But if I recall correctly Yoani Sánchez also visited my country some time ago. It seems to me Cuban dissidents love Chile and the right wing press and the right wing political leaders love them.

Quote:
Were you one of the Che t-shirt wearing brigade that attempted to shout her down at various stops throughout South America?
No, I don't even have a Ché Guevara T shirt. Everyone has the right to criticize their own country and leaders as they wish.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
A Cuban who worked for me, a trusted Party member, was sent to Chile in a work programme. Meaning most of his salary had to be sent to Fidel. When he realised that Chile was the best future for his family and refused to return to Cuba when the Party recalled him, his brother in Havana was fired from his job.
Yes, I know all about what it means for Cubans to travel "freely", when they have family held as hostages inside the prison.
My neighbor is from Cuba, though he studied engineering for free in the URSS, and then came to Chile to establish his roots. I have never heard from him having to send money to "the Party" and I really don't think he does. He still travels back to Cuba from time to time since most of his family lives there. Also, his mom travels to Chile in the summer time, pretty much every year.

He's a right winger, I believe. Or at least his wife is, considering she adores Pinochet.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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No. This time around it was Rosa María Paya.
Ah, the daughter of the most famous dissident, killed last year in a mysterious car crash.

The Spanish driver of the car, now safely back in Spain, has declared that their car was rammed from behind. He further declared that all four occupants were alive when taken to a hospital, but of the four, the two Cuban dissidents were later declared dead, while the two foreigners were not badly injured. Coincidence?
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post

No, I don't even have a Ché Guevara T shirt. Everyone has the right to criticize their own country and leaders as they wish.
Is it not the very heart of this discussion that in Cuba you absolutely do not have the right to criticize your leader?
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Old 08-16-2013, 02:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Ah, the daughter of the most famous dissident, killed last year in a mysterious car crash.

The Spanish driver of the car, now safely back in Spain, has declared that their car was rammed from behind. He further declared that all four occupants were alive when taken to a hospital, but of the four, the two Cuban dissidents were later declared dead, while the two foreigners were not badly injured. Coincidence?
- That guy had his driving license in Spain retired by driving like a savage.
http://internacional.elpais.com/inte...96_492000.html

- He hadn't a valid driving license in Cuba but he drove the car...

- This guy said in Spain that his car was rammed from behind for a blue car, yes, but then said that was a red car...
http://www.abc.es/internacional/2013...308051127.html

- The other guy who was in the car, a Swedish conservative political, says he does not remember anything but the Spaniard went driving too fast
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Is it not the very heart of this discussion that in Cuba you absolutely do not have the right to criticize your leader?
More or less the opposite, since the Cuban dissidents who spend most of their lives between their own country and the rest of the world criticizing Castro don't seem to have a problem...
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Old 08-16-2013, 05:46 AM   #25
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Ah, the daughter of the most famous dissident, killed last year in a mysterious car crash.

The Spanish driver of the car, now safely back in Spain, has declared that their car was rammed from behind.
not according to this declaration:

“A nosotros no nos dio ningún vehículo por la parte trasera, simplemente yo iba conduciendo, me percaté de un bache y tomé las precauciones de cualquier automovilista que es accionar el freno levemente. El coche perdió el control, no recuerdo señales”

http://internacional.elpais.com/inte...96_973372.html
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:25 PM   #26
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

my condolences to the families of around 20000 dead or missing people
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
More or less the opposite, since the Cuban dissidents who spend most of their lives between their own country and the rest of the world criticizing Castro don't seem to have a problem...
Oh, come on. You know very well that inside Cuba nobody can criticise the Party or Fidel, without being willing to have their lives change forever. They do not care too much about those few individuals they allow to travel, because what they say outside is not reported in Cuba, where the only media allowed is the Party propaganda sheet, and the vast majority of Cubans will never hear what is said. And the Party really only cares about what is in the minds of the Cuban people. When that is under control it matters not a whit what goes on outside Cuba.
Quite ironic that you rant about the corrupt western media and seem unperturbed that in Cuba the only thing they get to read is Granma, an absolute parody of press freedom.

What do you mean, don't seem to have a problem? Paya spent years in Fidel's concentration camps along with many others. All because Paya gathered enough signatures for a referendum to be held under the Cuban constitution. And now he is dead.

I never tire of telling the story of asking a Cuban friend why Granma publishes recipes for nice dishes, when the ingredients are impossible to find in Cuba. She replied that the government expects everyone to cut out the recipe page and boil it in a saucepan until done! Cuban humour at its best.
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Old 08-16-2013, 12:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
not according to this declaration:

“A nosotros no nos dio ningún vehículo por la parte trasera, simplemente yo iba conduciendo, me percaté de un bache y tomé las precauciones de cualquier automovilista que es accionar el freno levemente. El coche perdió el control, no recuerdo señales”

http://internacional.elpais.com/inte...96_973372.html
Come on, abraxas. that statement was made while he was still in Cuba, being held by the Cuban police.

Even you can do the maths on that one.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:24 PM   #29
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Default Re: Happy birthday Fidel!!

I sure missed your pseudo-socialist stuff and the usual responses by buddyholly
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