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Old 07-29-2013, 05:50 PM   #1
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Default Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...320888608.html

Quote:
Pope Francis opened the door on Sunday to greater acceptance of gay priests inside the ranks of Roman Catholicism as he returned to the Vatican from his maiden trip overseas.

Fielding questions from reporters during the first news conference of his young papacy, the pontiff broached the delicate question of how he would respond to learning that a cleric in his ranks was gay, though not sexually active. For decades, the Vatican has regarded homosexuality as a "disorder," and Pope Francis' predecessor Pope Benedict XVI formally barred men with what the Vatican deemed "deep-seated" homosexuality from entering the priesthood.

"Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?" the pontiff said, speaking in Italian. "You can't marginalize these people."

Never before had a pope spoken out in defense of gay priests in the Catholic ministry, said Vatican analysts. Past popes have traditionally treated homosexuality as an obstacle to priestly celibacy, and the Vatican has sent extensive instructions to Catholic seminaries on how to restrict gay candidates from the priesthood.

Still, Pope Francis referred to homosexual acts as a sin, reaffirming church teaching.

Pope Francis "is showing a deep respect for the human condition as it is instead of approaching things in a doctrinal way," said Alberto Melloni, a church historian.

Women, the pope said, couldn't be ordained as priests, because the issue had been "definitively" settled by Pope John Paul II. However, he wanted to develop a "theology of the woman," in order to expand and deepen their involvement in the life of the church.

Pope Francis celebrated the final Mass of his Brazil trip at Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janeiro Sunday.

The 80-minute news conference was wide-ranging and hastily arranged aboard an overnight flight that returned the pontiff to Rome Monday from a weeklong trip to Brazil, where millions of people flocked to see him, including three million at a Mass Sunday on the beach in Rio de Janeiro. The rock-star reception, analysts say, is likely to strengthen the pope's hand as he confronts myriad challenges awaiting him at the Vatican, including corruption at the Vatican bank to the long-running sexual-abuse crisis.

Pope Francis' remarks on homosexuality came as he mused at length on one scandal that erupted on his predecessor's watch: a secret Vatican report leaked to the Italian media purporting that a clique of homosexual Vatican clerics had formed a "gay lobby" that was secretly pulling the strings inside the Holy See.

The Argentine pontiff said he had discussed the findings of the internal Vatican report with Pope Benedict XVI, who resigned in early February. The German pope emeritus, Pope Francis said, had given him a box full of documentation and testimony from the internal report prepared by three octogenarian cardinals before he stepped down.

In a nuanced yet candid reflection, the pope carefully drew a distinction between the possibility of pressure groups existing inside the Vatican—which he defined as a "problem"—and the potential presence of gay priests within Vatican ranks.

"You have to distinguish between the fact of a person being gay, and the fact of a lobby," the pope said. "The problem isn't having this orientation. The problem is making a lobby."


The comments cut to the core of one of the most challenging issues facing the Catholic priesthood. Bishops who run local dioceses have long been divided over whether to accept gay priests who are chaste. While some bishops are tolerant of homosexuality, the Vatican's ban on gay men entering the priesthood has forced many clerics to keep their sexuality hidden from superiors who are likely to crack down.

For bishops, the issue boils down to if "you got a priest you know is gay but is not active is that a problem for you or not?" said John L. Allen, a Vatican analyst with the National Catholic Reporter. "For this pope the answer is 'no.'"


....
This is a nice contrast to events in Russia and Uganda.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

I read that he wants to visit israel as well, well after words like that im going to wave him welcome in the gates of jerusalem, such a wonderful thing to read, open. acceptance, one step at a time.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

I'm still stymied as to why it's 2013 and women still can't enter the priesthood. Why should men in drag have all the fun?
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

Jorge Bergoglio: "Gay marriage is a move by the Devil" (July, 2010).

Pope Francis: "Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?" (July, 2013).

Miracle?
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

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Originally Posted by Punky View Post
I read that he wants to visit israel as well, well after words like that im going to wave him welcome in the gates of jerusalem, such a wonderful thing to read, open. acceptance, one step at a time.
Did you understand what he meant? He recognized that people are born gay. But having a sex life is still forbidden by the church.
In other words, he said nothing. The church still hates on gay people.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

Yes, gay people can't create a lobby.

Catholics can, though.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Did you understand what he meant? He recognized that people are born gay. But having a sex life is still forbidden by the church.
In other words, he said nothing. The church still hates on gay people.
This

And he said that he has no problem with gay people if they are "open to Christ", which means nothing.

And he said later that he is a "man of the church" and the Church has spoken about this issue. He said the same about woman and priests.

The best attitude is to wait nothing of the Church, no matter how funny and carismatic is the Pope of the moment.

The Church is against the anti-conception, is against sex only for pleasure, is against divorce (!!!) and ypu expect that the Church and the Pope will recognize something to gay people

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1605441-e...orge-bergoglio
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Did you understand what he meant? He recognized that people are born gay. But having a sex life is still forbidden by the church.
In other words, he said nothing. The church still hates on gay people.
hoo i know what he say is not perfect but i know its not easy to change 2000 years with one pope, i think small steps are something
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

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Originally Posted by Punky View Post
hoo i know what he say is not perfect but i know its not easy to change 2000 years with one pope, i think small steps are something
Change what? Did you read the interview?

Bergoglio said he has the Church position on gay people and on another things.

The Church don´t even recognize straight people right to have sex for pleasure (even if you are married) and they are against divorce and anti-conception and you expect something about an issue which is a lot more cotnroversial like non-heterosexual people?

How funny is the way Bergoglio is doing things at the Vatican, here, he was only a normal priest, now he`s the new Wojtyla
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky View Post
hoo i know what he say is not perfect but i know its not easy to change 2000 years with one pope, i think small steps are something
Yup, this, it's not a small surprise he said that.
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Old 07-29-2013, 11:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

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hoo i know what he say is not perfect but i know its not easy to change 2000 years with one pope, i think small steps are something
Except what he said was "no change."
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

"You have to distinguish between the fact of a person being gay, and the fact of a lobby," the pope said. "The problem isn't having this orientation. The problem is making a lobby."

Good job for pointing this out.
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Old 07-30-2013, 01:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
Jorge Bergoglio: "Gay marriage is a move by the Devil" (July, 2010).

Pope Francis: "Who am I to judge a gay person of goodwill who seeks the Lord?" (July, 2013).

Miracle?
Francis never said a thing about marriage.
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Old 07-30-2013, 05:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

This is a fairly big deal. It's not very long ago that the words Satan ad Devil were in the same sentence as homosexuality. The church has always been savvy at adapting when they see fit. They can see the turning tide and how the newer generations view homosexuality and the hard core stance of it being sinful flying in the face of the turning tide. Obviously they cannot do an about-face change of dogma or the traditionalists will have aneurisms.
What has been happening recently is a gradual change. I go with my parents to mass occasionally and I have heard 3 different priests give much softer talks on homosexuality recently than anything imaginable even just a few years ago. I expect it will gradually change even more as the years go by. Don't be shocked if there are more and more open minded comments like this from the church coming.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Pope Signals Openness to Gay Priests - WaPo

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The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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