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Old 07-22-2013, 10:23 PM   #151
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Originally Posted by Htom Sirveaux View Post
There was a similar discussion when Ironbmike got banned for saying something like this a few months back. These kinds of things come down to what kind of moderation posters want; banning nicknames and player insults pissed a LOT of people off and the mods backed off. Setting a line for saying certain things about gays (or blacks, Jews, women, whatever) doesn't seem to get too many posters worked up. I don't think the policy will change.
Actually, it's ok to make any derogatory remark you want about women on this board.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:33 PM   #152
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Originally Posted by Htom Sirveaux View Post
You first used the word orgy, and your evidence simply isn't an orgy.

'Having sex in a public space' happens all the time and both gay and straight people engage in it. That you would have relatively more of these isolated acts occurring during a pride festival (or music festival for that matter) is not surprising and most people who don't have sexual hang-ups simply don't care about this kind of thing; it also doesn't make it an 'orgy'. OTOH, an actual orgy with groups of people fucking in the street would NOT be tolerated, and that's what you initially accused San Francisco of hosting.

Just my opinion, but I think you'll find women less willing than men to have sex publicly. Men, both gay and straight seem to have fewer inhibitions with public nudity and sex than do women. Although it seems to me that it is the minority of both gay and straight people who want to engage in public sex.

When I looked at those pictures, the first thing I thought was, "Men! " Really gross behavior, IMO. Oh -- and also stupid because I didn't notice any protection.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:40 PM   #153
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Just my opinion, but I think you'll find women less willing than men to have sex publicly. Men, both gay and straight seem to have fewer inhibitions with public nudity and sex than do women. Although it seems to me that it is the minority of both gay and straight people who want to engage in public sex.

When I looked at those pictures, the first thing I thought was, "Men! " Really gross behavior, IMO. Oh -- and also stupid because I didn't notice any protection.
I think you're generally right about that. Life would be much easier for straight men if women were as easy as gay men. Also agree about the stupidity of the unprotected sex on display.

And regarding your previous post about protections for women from hate speech on here, you're probably right there too especially when it comes to idiot young men saying casually chauvinistic things. But I honestly don't think the forum would tolerate seriously misogynistic comments in a news-style thread a la the people suggesting homosexuality = pedophilia.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:47 PM   #154
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Originally Posted by star View Post

When I looked at those pictures, the first thing I thought was, "Men! " Really gross behavior, IMO. Oh -- and also stupid because I didn't notice any protection.
I think the other common factor among the men involved with the "sex" in those pictures is that they're all middle aged. Gay men of their age, imo, faced greater sexual oppression than, for instance, gay men of my age (early 30s, and also referring to this region of the world.) I personally would never participate in that kind of public sexual activity, but I probably have less of a feeling of "sexual liberation." I think that the more one feels repressed, the more gregarious their expressions become after casting off that repression. As for the lack of protection, I believe it's a safe bet that many of the men in the pictures already have HIV, since men of their age were practicing unsafe sex during the HIV boom.

Now onto the wider point...

I repeat, I've been to several Folsom Street Fair celebrations and did not once see any public oral sex that is depicted in these pictures. Obviously it does happen but considering thousands of people every year attend the FSF, these people are clearly in the minority. Donations are gratefully accepted at the door and these donations which count in the hundreds of thousands of dollars yearly go toward organizations that fund the research of HIV/AIDS treatment, sex education programs and programs that help disaffected youth. Sexual acts occur at many public celebrations gay, straight or indifferent. Was Woodstock a gay festival?

Last point I need to make is the festival in these pictures IS NOT A GAY festival. It is a bondage/s&m/leather festival. There are also straight people that attend these festivals.
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Old 07-22-2013, 10:55 PM   #155
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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That much I'm aware of. I must repeat, as controversial as that comment is for some, it's actually an unapologetically natural belief for billions of people around the world. Discussing that controversy is healthy, even on MTF.
Rubbish. We got multiple reports on his post and he was deservedly banned. There was hardly anything healthy about the comment. Moreover, if you think there are other posts that need to be looked into, you are free to report them.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:22 PM   #156
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Originally Posted by Htom Sirveaux View Post
And regarding your previous post about protections for women from hate speech on here, you're probably right there too especially when it comes to idiot young men saying casually chauvinistic things. But I honestly don't think the forum would tolerate seriously misogynistic comments in a news-style thread a la the people suggesting homosexuality = pedophilia.
One thing I note is that homosexual men quite rightly object to using derogatory terms because the use of those terms is on the spectrum of the hatred and contempt that at it's most extreme leads to violence against gay men. However, I never notice the same standard being applied to derogatory names or speech against women. Everyone seems to be engaged in some sort of willful ignorance about violence against women that occurs on a daily basis. I'd be willing to say that proportionally there is more violence against women than against gay men. The violence is because of their status as women. They are regarded as weaker and less socially powerful. Yet people can't seem to associate casually contemptuous speech about women with the violence women experience.

I believe I state earlier that pedophilia is not particularly associated with homosexuality. If anything, it is associated with the male sex since the vast majority of pedophiles are men. The one homosexual I knew to be a pedophile had a male and a female victim although he seemed to be more obsessed with the boy. I also know a heterosexual pedophile who perpetrated on both boys and girls. One of the reasons myths about pedophilia abound is because most people understandably don't want to hear about it, and neither perpetrators or victims want to speak about it.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:26 PM   #157
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Originally Posted by Nunyabeezwax View Post
I think the other common factor among the men involved with the "sex" in those pictures is that they're all middle aged. Gay men of their age, imo, faced greater sexual oppression than, for instance, gay men of my age (early 30s, and also referring to this region of the world.) I personally would never participate in that kind of public sexual activity, but I probably have less of a feeling of "sexual liberation." I think that the more one feels repressed, the more gregarious their expressions become after casting off that repression. As for the lack of protection, I believe it's a safe bet that many of the men in the pictures already have HIV, since men of their age were practicing unsafe sex during the HIV boom.

Now onto the wider point...

I repeat, I've been to several Folsom Street Fair celebrations and did not once see any public oral sex that is depicted in these pictures. Obviously it does happen but considering thousands of people every year attend the FSF, these people are clearly in the minority. Donations are gratefully accepted at the door and these donations which count in the hundreds of thousands of dollars yearly go toward organizations that fund the research of HIV/AIDS treatment, sex education programs and programs that help disaffected youth. Sexual acts occur at many public celebrations gay, straight or indifferent. Was Woodstock a gay festival?

Last point I need to make is the festival in these pictures IS NOT A GAY festival. It is a bondage/s&m/leather festival. There are also straight people that attend these festivals.
Maybe I'm wrong here but it's a bdsm festival that's targeted to the gay community and not to the bdsm community in general. I think that's clear from the area where it's held.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:27 PM   #158
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Maybe I'm wrong here but it's a bdsm festival that's targeted to the gay community and not to the bdsm community in general. I think that's clear from the area where it's held.
You are wrong. Folsom Street is South of Market, known as Soma. The "gay" area of San Francisco is Castro Street. The closest sex club to the FSF is in fact a bdsm club called The Power Exchange. The Power Exchange does have a small section for gay men, however it is primarily a straight bondage club. In recent years the heterosexual attendance at the Fair has been estimated to be as high as 50%. Many friends I have back in San Francisco no longer even attend the Fair because they feel like too many straight people show up. The FSF hasn't been regarded as a purely gay event for going on 10 years.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:40 PM   #159
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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You are wrong. Folsom Street is South of Market, known as Soma. The "gay" area of San Francisco is Castro Street. The closest sex club to the FSF is in fact a bdsm club called The Power Exchange. The Power Exchange does have a small section for gay men, however it is primarily a straight bondage club. In recent years the heterosexual attendance at the Fair has been estimated to be as high as 50%. Many friends I have back in San Francisco no longer even attend the Fair because they feel like too many straight people show up. The FSF hasn't been regarded as a purely gay event for going on 10 years.
Thanks for the education.

It's kind of small minded of you though to shun it because there are too many heterosexuals there.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:44 PM   #160
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

I don't shun it. I just don't live in San Francisco anymore. Plus I'm at the age where I'd shun the whole atmosphere, not the straights. For the record I can't stand much of gay culture.
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Old 07-22-2013, 11:51 PM   #161
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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maybe puti hope it will help russia Demographic crisis?


The population of Russia peaked at 148,689,000 in 1991, just before the breakup of the Soviet Union. Low birth rates and abnormally high death rates caused Russia's population to decline at a 0.5% annual rate, or about 750,000 to 800,000 people per year from the mid-1990s to the mid-2000s. The UN warned in 2005 that Russia's then population of about 143 million could fall by a third by 2050, if trends did not improve.[13][14]
The Russian state statistics service Rosstat had more optimistic forecasts in 2009, whose Medium variant predicted that Russia's population would only fall to 139 million by 2030[15] (Low: 127 million; High: 147 million). Furthermore, in 2008 one demographic analyst (correctly) predicted a resumption in population growth by 2010, and of natural population growth by 2013.[16]
The number of Russians living in poverty has decreased by 50% since the economic crisis following the disintegration of the Soviet Union, and the improving economy had a positive impact on the country's low birth rate. The latter rose from its lowest point of 8.27 births per 1000 people in 1999 to 12.6 per 1000 in 2010. Likewise, the fertility rate rose from its lowest point of 1.16 in 1999 to 1.54 in 2009. 2007 marked the highest growth in birth rates that the country had seen in 25 years, and 2009 marked the highest total birth rate since 1991.
While the Russian birth rate is comparable to that of other developed countries, its death rate is much higher, especially among working-age males due to a comparatively high rate of fatalities caused by heart disease and other external causes such as accidents. The Russian death rate in 2010 was 14.3 per 1000 citizens. For comparison, the US[18] death rate in 2009 was 8.4 per 1000 .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia
That's very interesting information about the declining population. One thing that amazes me is that you would think that each child's life would be precious in such a society, but yet the Russian orphanage system is dreadful. Children are mistreated and not given the emotional nourishment they need to become successful citizens. There is also little drive to have them adopted into Russian families. I really think the reason Putin is stopping adoptions is because he doesn't want other countries to know how terrible the conditions are for children there.
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:57 AM   #162
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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It may be a belief of many people around the world, but I can't see where you could conclude that it is a natural belief.

Heterosexuality must be as much connected with pedophilia as homosexuality.

Sadly, I've had way too much contact with real life pedophiles, and know pedophiles who perpetrate on children of both sexes regardless of their preference for same or opposite sex adult partners.
It's easy to get hung up on semantics. I said the belief comes naturally because of their world view, and religious dogma, not that it's a natural belief per se.

The following is not necessarily my position on gays or pedophiles.

It's possible that some who make the pedophile/homosexuality connection are not being automatically malicious, but tend to view human sexuality in a kind of utilitarian fashion (while it's fun, the main goal is reproduction). Those people are entitled to their opinions as well, even if it's critical of homosexuality. Some think in practical terms. I remember the former wrestler "the ultimate warrior" addressing a university crowd a few years back. He said "queering doesn't work!" Some laughed, and some gasped. It was a controversial comment, but a debate followed. There are billions of people who feel that it "just doesn't work," because it deviates from what they feel is the natural order, and their societies are structured according to those moral absolutes. I think we are all adults here, and if I swung that way myself and liked dudes, I sure as heck wouldn't be horrified every time someone said something about my lifestyle, and I wouldn't cry "HATER!" each time either.

The thread deals with a country which has taken a certain position on gays, and a poster tried to justified or rationalize why it has done so. Right or wrong, he's entitled to his opinion, or delete the thread.
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found? is there nothing?  

Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal certainly win Roger?

Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)

Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

argument.

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Old 07-23-2013, 05:24 AM   #163
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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That's very interesting information about the declining population. One thing that amazes me is that you would think that each child's life would be precious in such a society, but yet the Russian orphanage system is dreadful. Children are mistreated and not given the emotional nourishment they need to become successful citizens. There is also little drive to have them adopted into Russian families. I really think the reason Putin is stopping adoptions is because he doesn't want other countries to know how terrible the conditions are for children there.
I cant add information about the subject bc im not familiar with russia orphanage system so i will take ur word for it.
stopping Adopting just so ppl wont find our how awful your system seems to me a very Cruel thing to do but on the other hand its putin..in general heads of state and presidents are not known for their compassion heart
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:27 AM   #164
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
It's possible that some who make the pedophile/homosexuality connection are not being automatically malicious, but tend to view human sexuality in a kind of utilitarian fashion (while it's fun, the main goal is reproduction). Those people are entitled to their opinions as well, even if it's critical of homosexuality. Some think in practical terms. I remember the former wrestler "the ultimate warrior" addressing a university crowd a few years back. He said "queering doesn't work!" Some laughed, and some gasped. It was a controversial comment, but a debate followed. There are billions of people who feel that it "just doesn't work," because it deviates from what they feel is the natural order, and their societies are structured according to those moral absolutes. I think we are all adults here, and if I swung that way myself and liked dudes, I sure as heck wouldn't be horrified every time someone said something about my lifestyle, and I wouldn't cry "HATER!" each time either.
Making "controversial" comments like that is not quite the same as accusing gays who want to marry and adopt children of merely wanting to commit what's just about the most heinous crime humanity has to offer.
This isn't about "being critical". It's about saying - they're monsters. Homosexuality, paedophilia, it's all the same, it's all monstrous.

And by the way, it's very easy to demand a thick skin from others if you're not the one who's being targeted.

Quote:
The thread deals with a country which has taken a certain position on gays, and a poster tried to justified or rationalize why it has done so. Right or wrong, he's entitled to his opinion, or delete the thread.
No, that's not what he did. He just insulted gays and posted a couple of photos, of fireworks over the Red Square and of a homeless person (as a symbol of the morally corrupt Western world).
Not exactly a "rationalisation" or a meaningful contribution to the discussion in my book.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:44 AM   #165
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Default Re: Russia to arrest openly gay tourists.

Yup, he specifically singled out those who fight for gay rights, pretty obvious he's having a beef with them, and it's not even hard to guess why.
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