2013 Fall Season, Regroup! Allez! - Page 70 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 04-28-2013, 08:07 PM   #1036
country flag lalaland
Registered User
 
lalaland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,994
lalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
It's just a random guess for Delaitre as his future coach but i really think his new coach will be someone from FFT.
I see. I don't know this Delaitre, I hope he's good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
Otherwise, i watched a french TV show about tennis on Canal+Sport and Guy Forget was invited to discuss about Davis Cup and the loss in Argentina.
He didn't say anything wrong in my opinion: for him, Gilles was too shy and played too defensive (i think more on important points) on the court against Berlocq and that he should have shown who is the patron because of the difference of ranking, as was the case when he saved match points lol...
So, he also said it's sad to see him play like that because he can play good tennis and that he had a good idea to research a coach to redefine his tactics on the court.
Forget is right, but he's pointing out the obvious. Everyone thinks Gilles should be more offensive, everyone wants him to be more offensive. I think so too and I bet Gilles wants himself to be more offensive too. I don't think it's for tactical reason that he's not doing it. It's the mindset that he has that prevents him from doing it, he's afraid to miss. We fans all know that when he's feeling confident, he plays more offensively. It's harder to go against your instinct when you doubt yourself. He plays more tentatively when he's the favorite, he feels he has choices how to win a match, he falls back to his instinct of being defensive. When he's the underdog, he knows he cannot win unless he's offensive, same when his back's against the wall, it's easier to go against your instinct when you think it's the only way out. His pattern is so obvious to me, it doesn't need a Forget to point things out. I'm so tired of ppl complaining about Gilles not being offensive, like ppl complaining Gasquet standing 3 meters behind the baseline. I don't think these players not know their shortcomings (since everyone and their brothers know), I think it's just not easy to change. I remember long time ago, someone asked Gonzo why he has to bash the ball every single shot when he missed so many. Everyone and himself knew that he needs to have more patient and work the point more before going for it, including himself. He said, that's his instinct, he cannot not bash the ball, even though he knew he shouldn't. Then Larry Stefanki came along and finally helped him to do just that...That's what I'm hoping for Gilles, to find his Larry. A coach that can help a player to let go of his instinct, it will take a very strong coach to be able to change a player's mindset. It'll be a balance of respecting his student while being able to have the authority to influence him. That's why Tutu is not enough, too much respect for Gilles and too little influence. Forget will never be good because he has too little respect for Gilles. When your student don't feel respected, he'll resist your influence. Not that there's any possibility Forget will be considered. Gilles will never let Forget anywhere near him.
lalaland is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 04-28-2013, 10:18 PM   #1037
country flag Casp83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 120
Casp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

In fact, i appreciate what he can do on the court/his interviews sometimes but i wouldn't say i'm a "fan" and i also think he could/should play more aggressively as he's capable to especially against players who gives him time to do so; particularly at his peak it was the case indeed.
I've also noticed he makes more unforced errors on easy balls and is generally relatively slower, not a good thing...
Otherwise, as you said, it's a problem of mindset, natural instincts and confidence with him, but for instance when he has a better serving day like against Del Potro in Marseille, he feels more confident and he's way more proactive in rallies and at return of serve as well.
Anyway, tennis is a sport where mental toughness and confidence are really important to get results, more so than playing style and talent.
Unfortunately, i doubt anything will change drastically with a new coach, in my opinion it's too late to win something worth mentioning: he's 28, struggles with injuries, has passed his prime and the ATP level is high.
I guess he will continue to have good and shaky days in terms of confidence, play etc with solid results but nothing more, apart from one of two good performances in MS 1000 per year so a pattern of his whole career.

Last edited by Casp83 : 04-28-2013 at 11:24 PM.
Casp83 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 12:34 AM   #1038
country flag lalaland
Registered User
 
lalaland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,994
lalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
In fact, i appreciate what he can do on the court/his interviews sometimes but i wouldn't say i'm a "fan" and i also think he could/should play more aggressively as he's capable to especially against players who gives him time to do so; particularly at his peak it was the case indeed.
I love reading what he thinks but I don't always agree with his thinkings. And I also think sometimes he's telling himself something that is not really the case. But I don't think it's problematic. I think there's a lot of ways to get to Rome. If a little denial or other ways of interpret things that will lead to the same result... ultimately the important thing is whatever mean that leads to the same end, a desirable outcome.

As for what he can do during his peak, the thing is, he can still do those things now even when he's not peak anymore. It's just that it comes far too infrequently (once in awhile, there's a Del Po win). In his peak, he's confident, a lot more healthier, and have no expectation. All these have changed. A lot cannot be reversed, like he probably cannot be any more healthier than he was at 23, nor can he have less expectation than he was in 2008. But less not think about 2008 anymore, let's all move on and stop regretting that he's not the 2008 Gilles Simon anymore. Doesn't mean he won't be any good anymore, at least I don't really see it that way. Gilles shouldn't look bad either, cos there's really no point thinking that he can never be as good anymore, that will be so counter-productive. So I hope Gilles is only looking forward and believing that the best is still to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
I've also noticed he makes more unforced errors on easy balls and is generally relatively slower, not a good thing...
Ah, that's the part that his game deteriorate the most. Nowadays he has a lot of UEs in his game, I don't know if it's because he's a step slower or if he's just not focus enough, or it's just technical since he also mentioned his game regressing. But he used to be able to rely on outmanoeuvring the opponents, and his own UEs is making it hard to do now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
Otherwise, as you said, it's a problem of mindset, natural instincts and confidence with him, but for instance when he has a better serving day like against Del Potro in Marseille, he feels more confident and he's way more proactive in rallies and at return of serve (by coincidence, i've even read on twitter few people saying it was one of the few Simon's entertaining matches )
Well, tennis is a sport where mental toughness and confidence are really important to get results anyway, more so than playing style and talent.
Confidence comes from so many sources, one is feeling that you can rely on your body, this source has significantly diminished these days. Plus, he said he's been spending so much time on the physio part than on court (a ration of 4:1). That helps him to not get injured as frequently but also hurt his game. He did mention before he needs to balance out these 2 parts. Let's hope that his scheme of fixing his body will come to fruition as he has planned, by RG. His physical issue is really the source of a lot of his problems now. So there is always hope that once he is healthy again, the confident and the ability to train will be restored too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
Unfortunately, i doubt anything will change drastically with a new coach, in my opinion it's too late to win something worth mentioning: he's 28, struggles with injuries, has passed his prime and the ATP level is high.
I remain hopeful but I'm also cautious to not think once a new coach onboard that his game will be fixed, that the result will be fixed. It's far too easy to think a change will guarantee good, but there's no guarantee. But in his desperation, as in now, a change will hopefully sparks some inspiration. In team sports, like hockey which I follow closely, a new coach can always get a few wins upon arrival. There's a big psychological factor that inject optimism when there's a change. He needs a coach to fix his deficits, that at least is one solution that can easy be resolved (getting the coach part, not sure about fixing his deficits). And not rushing into one is good, he doesn't just need a coach, because he's so opinionated, he needs someone that can really convince him.

As for his mental toughness, it's still there. He won more matches playing badly these past few months than ever, which is helpful since he can barely play well anymore these days. But I think mental toughness helps him to not lose, doesn't help him to win. He needs confidence, he needs to believe that he can beat anyone. And ppl say Tsonga is much more mentally tough than Gilles. I disagree. Tsonga has much more belief than Gilles, that's why he almost always beat the guys lower than him and can give the big guys challenge. There is a different. But anyway, I think Gilles' mental is pretty much the only strength of him that's still working. And lets see Gasquet these days, he's getting very consistent now beating most that's below them, that to me is the belief working, that he's believing now that he's better than those below him. But he's still not be considered a mentally tough player. I don't know if my theory is right, but that's how I feel anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
I guess he will continue to have good and shaky days in terms of confidence, play etc with solid results but nothing more, apart from one of two good performances in MS 1000 per year so a pattern of his whole career.
Well, one or 2 good performance in MS1000 per year is not bad. It is what differentiate a Top 16 from the players below them. If a player is consistently QFinalist in MS1000, he'll be Top 10. A consistent QFinalist also in all Slams is probalby a Top 6. I know he's not capable of consistently good at big events, so I can only hope for occasionally good. And like you said, that's his pattern anyway, he was good in 2 MS1000 in 2008, that consequently get him to a TMS SF. And remember how excited everyone was at him then? It really doesn't take much and I'm not asking for more either.

I compare last year since he became coachless, to the previous year. From Beijing 2011 to Mia 2012 compare to Tokyo 2012 to Mia 2013, the points are 595 and 1215 respectively. I don't know what it means except the fact that he's doing something right. That 595 pts was during a period that he was in bad form plus lots of physically issues. Now, if you think about after Bangkok last year, he was in bad form too, then out of the blue Bercy happened. Really, not much seemingly has changed this year. He played with injuries, he played horribly, but he wins. I don't know what is the element that's causing these, maybe it's his attitude like he said. Maybe his physical is really improving despite it appears to not be so. All I know is, he's doing something right whether we know it or not. Yes, it's hellish to have to watch him struggled physically and gamewise every match, on the other hand, tremendous satisfaction to see him win despite all his difficulties. Gilles is really something special. So we may think he's stupid to go coachless, that he's not training right... but funny enough, the result said it's not a bad decision. Having no coach probably won't work long term, but this coachless period somehow did benefit him. We all want him to play fantastic and win matches that we can feel proud of, like that one against DelPo. But on the other hand, I also want him to win first and foremost. It sometimes marvels me more that someone wins by merely refusing to lose (that reminds me of Nole 2010 and his DFs. Every game I watched him he was struggling everywhere, yet he won. And I think that's why he eventually becomes Nole 2.0. That attitude of refusing to lose, perhaps is really part of the progress to become a great champion. I'm not expecting Gilles to become Nole, I just want to point out that Gilles also possess an important strength that can help him to be more success in the coming days. As of now, Gilles has too many issues and the clock is clicking. But against all odds seem to be his specialty. It is not hopeless.
lalaland is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 01:07 AM   #1039
country flag lalaland
Registered User
 
lalaland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,994
lalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

I must admit though, my data is a bit selective, but with reason. Toyko 2012 to Mia 2013, instead of Bucharest 2013. Of course last year, he had 610 pts in the month of April, this year he has 100 pts. DC is obviously a factor. The coachless factor, the marginal benefit diminishes from month 1 to month 6, and finally reaching equilibrium and past it, now is being outweighted by the negative effects. In a sense, the past 6 months of coachless is well spent to get the max effect out of it, and now is probably the perfect time for him to get a new coach.
lalaland is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 06:15 AM   #1040
country flag GilleSimonAddict
Registered User
 
GilleSimonAddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 680
GilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
In fact, i appreciate what he can do on the court/his interviews sometimes but i wouldn't say i'm a "fan" and i also think he could/should play more aggressively as he's capable to especially against players who gives him time to do so; particularly at his peak it was the case indeed.
I've also noticed he makes more unforced errors on easy balls and is generally relatively slower, not a good thing...
Otherwise, as you said, it's a problem of mindset, natural instincts and confidence with him, but for instance when he has a better serving day like against Del Potro in Marseille, he feels more confident and he's way more proactive in rallies and at return of serve as well.
Anyway, tennis is a sport where mental toughness and confidence are really important to get results, more so than playing style and talent.
Unfortunately, i doubt anything will change drastically with a new coach, in my opinion it's too late to win something worth mentioning: he's 28, struggles with injuries, has passed his prime and the ATP level is high.
I guess he will continue to have good and shaky days in terms of confidence, play etc with solid results but nothing more, apart from one of two good performances in MS 1000 per year so a pattern of his whole career.
You may be right about that. Especially these days, but to be fair, and I don't want to speak for anyone else here, but for me personally, I don't like him based on his wins/losses or notable title wins. I like him not only as a tennis player but as a human being. He's a great guy and I don't really find myself liking guys like Nadal or Federer as favorites. It's too easy. They win everything of significance and it starts to get/feel old. I know it's not fair but it's true in terms of how I feel. I'm much more excited when Gilles manages to win something, no matter how small of a tournament it may be because it's not expected or a given.

Being a Gilles Simon fan is tough and takes a lot of patience and tolerance for heartache and grief which definitely gets tough. I often ask myself why I put myself through all this, but then all Gilles has to do is smile and say one of his usual interviews with silly ramblings about his game or relative obscurity to most fans or whatever and I remember why. I'm not a fan because I think he's going to acheive Federer like results some day or even once. In fact, many people already think he has more than met his potential and over-achieved which is not something you can say about Gasquet or Monfils. Gilles got a lot out of that scraggly little frame of his over the past ten years. Before Tsonga finally tied him he was the only one of the four Musketeers to have won ten titles. Gilles doesn't really get enough credit for what he has done and for how he's done it which is without God given natural weapons like size, power etc. like a Tsonga. He's had to scratch, scrape, grind and claw his way to success. In fact, Gilles gets more grief rather than credit. Go figure.

Anyway, just felt like bringing some positivity to the thread after how things have been going as of late.

Last edited by GilleSimonAddict : 04-29-2013 at 06:18 AM.
GilleSimonAddict is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 11:23 AM   #1041
country flag BlueLighthouse
Registered User
 
BlueLighthouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,590
BlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond reputeBlueLighthouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Small feel good story in this tough time

A kid name Jason used to ballboyed and said Gilles was the nicest man he'd ever ballboyed for.


Quote:
On the nicest man he ever ballboyed for: Gilles Simon.

PS. We know all along that Sloan Stephens was bs when she badmouthed Gilles. (I'm still put her on forever shitlist, though).
__________________
twitter @jessica4stein
tumblr http://jessica4stein.tumblr.com

Gulbis . Tursunov . Simon . Thiem . Paire
BlueLighthouse is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 11:41 AM   #1042
country flag Casp83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 120
Casp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilleSimonAddict View Post
You may be right about that. Especially these days, but to be fair, and I don't want to speak for anyone else here, but for me personally, I don't like him based on his wins/losses or notable title wins. I like him not only as a tennis player but as a human being. He's a great guy and I don't really find myself liking guys like Nadal or Federer as favorites. It's too easy. They win everything of significance and it starts to get/feel old. I know it's not fair but it's true in terms of how I feel. I'm much more excited when Gilles manages to win something, no matter how small of a tournament it may be because it's not expected or a given.

Being a Gilles Simon fan is tough and takes a lot of patience and tolerance for heartache and grief which definitely gets tough. I often ask myself why I put myself through all this, but then all Gilles has to do is smile and say one of his usual interviews with silly ramblings about his game or relative obscurity to most fans or whatever and I remember why. I'm not a fan because I think he's going to acheive Federer like results some day or even once. In fact, many people already think he has more than met his potential and over-achieved which is not something you can say about Gasquet or Monfils. Gilles got a lot out of that scraggly little frame of his over the past ten years. Before Tsonga finally tied him he was the only one of the four Musketeers to have won ten titles. Gilles doesn't really get enough credit for what he has done and for how he's done it which is without God given natural weapons like size, power etc. like a Tsonga. He's had to scratch, scrape, grind and claw his way to success. In fact, Gilles gets more grief rather than credit. Go figure.

Anyway, just felt like bringing some positivity to the thread after how things have been going as of late.

Well, he has a decent career so far considering his skinny frame and results in junior tennis circuit but i don't think he has particularly over-achieved: he won titles by beating inferior players most of the time (maybe not Almagro), certainly he lacks natural "weapons" like Tsonga's serve or Gasquet's backhand (Gasquet's forehand is relatively bad though) but he has natural timing, good technique (way better than Monfils's in my opinion and the fact he's capable to hit the ball hard and his depth of shots and accuracy are a sign of good timing and technique in his case when playing well imo), relatively good technical skills in general, underrated feel with the game and good court sense to compensate that so size, power are important but not essential to succeed in tennis.
And he lost to inferior (lower ranked) players many times during his career even in Slams, where his results are disappointing for him though.
Ferrer is a better example of an over-achiever, he's less talented than many players in top 50 (including Gilles obv) but get much better results thanks to hard work, belief, consistency and stamina.
Finally, as i've said, his weaknesses (mainly relatively lack of spin + serve/first serve percentage + belief and sometimes laziness on the court) will be difficult to overcome as he's 28 but he can already be relatively proud of his achievements considering his growth delay and results in junior circuit (although he did not participate in a lot of tournaments).

Last edited by Casp83 : 04-29-2013 at 08:50 PM.
Casp83 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 12:21 PM   #1043
country flag Casp83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 120
Casp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLighthouse View Post
Small feel good story in this tough time

A kid name Jason used to ballboyed and said Gilles was the nicest man he'd ever ballboyed for.





PS. We know all along that Sloan Stephens was bs when she badmouthed Gilles. (I'm still put her on forever shitlist, though).
At 1:40, she poses with him lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r89a8...F47C44A4558B0F

Last edited by Casp83 : 04-29-2013 at 08:53 PM.
Casp83 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 08:06 PM   #1044
country flag lalaland
Registered User
 
lalaland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,994
lalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by news-tennis83 View Post
he won titles beating inferior players most of the time (maybe not Almagro).
Very true, but aren't they all? I mean, players like Tsonga and Gasquet, who are said to be supremely talented, how often they won titles requiring them to beat superior players? The answer is, not often. Of Gilles' 10 titles, 4 of them he beat someone higher ranked than him. 4 for Tsonga and 3 for Gasquet. Although Tsonga did won his first 3 titles beating Nole 1.0. Since then, he had only beaten 1 player who's higher ranked than him, that's this year beating Berdych in Marseille. As for Richard, his 3 titles that he had to beat someone higher ranked them him, he was ranked in the 60s in all those 3 tournaments. So you see, it's not uncommon for these players to beat inferior players to win their titles. The fact is, if you win 9-10 titles in your career, you probably has a high ranking most of the time, and unless those titles you won are MS1000 or slams, otherwise, it's most likely that you are beating players lower rank than yourself.

I think to say someone is overachieved or underachieved, is based on the expectation of them. So you won't say Tsonga or Gasquet reach their expectation so far, since they were both exceptional juniors and were expected to win slam. As compare to Gilles, who wasn't expected to even make pro when he was a junior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLighthouse View Post
Small feel good story in this tough time

A kid name Jason used to ballboyed and said Gilles was the nicest man he'd ever ballboyed for.

PS. We know all along that Sloan Stephens was bs when she badmouthed Gilles. (I'm still put her on forever shitlist, though).
It's annoying that Sloan Stephens badmouthed Gilles and got away with it, and ppl are still making fun of Gilles bcos of Sloan's Stephens' BS incorrect accusation.

Last edited by lalaland : 04-29-2013 at 08:25 PM.
lalaland is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 09:12 PM   #1045
country flag GilleSimonAddict
Registered User
 
GilleSimonAddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 680
GilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
I think to say someone is overachieved or underachieved, is based on the expectation of them. So you won't say Tsonga or Gasquet reach their expectation so far, since they were both exceptional juniors and were expected to win slam. As compare to Gilles, who wasn't expected to even make pro when he was a junior.
Exactly. News-Tennis83 is certainly entitled to his opinion, but I just absolutely cannot agree with the notion that Gilles has not over-achieved in his career. Nobody expected this lanky kid with chicken legs from a non-athletic family to ever beat the likes of Federer (twice), Djokovic, and Nadal (in Madrid no less) ever let alone all in the same year. The only other player to do that was Andy Murray who's now top 4 himself and part of that click. Not to mention get as high as 6 in the world with no weapons or a serve that would win him easy points and get him out of trouble regularly. Pretty impressive for a kid from Nice that was told he'd never make it far in the sport and pretty descriptive of an over-achiever. And hopefully, he's got a few more tricks up his sleeve before he calls it quits.
GilleSimonAddict is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 09:45 PM   #1046
country flag Casp83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 120
Casp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GilleSimonAddict View Post
Exactly. News-Tennis83 is certainly entitled to his opinion, but I just absolutely cannot agree with the notion that Gilles has not over-achieved in his career. Nobody expected this lanky kid with chicken legs from a non-athletic family to ever beat the likes of Federer (twice), Djokovic, and Nadal (in Madrid no less) ever let alone all in the same year. The only other player to do that was Andy Murray who's now top 4 himself and part of that click. Not to mention get as high as 6 in the world with no weapons or a serve that would win him easy points and get him out of trouble regularly. Pretty impressive for a kid from Nice that was told he'd never make it far in the sport and pretty descriptive of an over-achiever. And hopefully, he's got a few more tricks up his sleeve before he calls it quits.
You can't say he has "no weapons", he doesn't have huge weapons for sure but he has weapons when he's confident, i mean he can hit a hard flat ball and surprise opponents with down the line shots, can change the direction of the ball easily, can hit with depth and sharp angles as well...
In 2008 Vs Nadal for example:
http://youtu.be/5XQqU-h7VPk
http://youtu.be/0uiJ5NKK4ns
http://youtu.be/BA1oDo3soCg
Casp83 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:05 PM   #1047
country flag TennisFan2012
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 501
TennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisFan2012 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

There are lots of good points on this thread. Thanks, everyone.

My two cents: I think GS's speed, technical precision, and intelligence are among the gifts and strengths that have helped him achieve--and I don't consider him an overachiever. I see confidence as a product of good results rather than a cause of them. I enjoy watching him play, especially on the rare occasions when I've gotten to see him play in person and when he's in his "zone", where it is much easier to see the strengths of his game than on TV.
TennisFan2012 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:19 PM   #1048
country flag lalaland
Registered User
 
lalaland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,994
lalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond reputelalaland has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

I also disagree that he has no weapons, but I think GSAddict means in terms of a power FH or BH or S or V, he doesn't have a Kill Shot, so to speak. But his mental and his resiliences, among other things, are quite the strength. Plus as news-tennis said, his timing, a thing of beauty IMO.

As whether confidence is the cause or effect of good results, it's both. Good confidence gives good results that further makes someone more confidence, it's a cycle.

I actually don't quite care if he's over or under-achieve at this point of his career. I just think he can still achieve more. I know he's 28, but Ferrer wasn't much at 28 either, and as I remember he has a very low period at around that time that he has a pretty bad shoulder or arm injury, and it was looking like his career is going downhill. But look where he is now.
lalaland is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 10:46 PM   #1049
country flag GilleSimonAddict
Registered User
 
GilleSimonAddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Age: 33
Posts: 680
GilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond reputeGilleSimonAddict has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland View Post
I also disagree that he has no weapons, but I think GSAddict means in terms of a power FH or BH or S or V, he doesn't have a Kill Shot, so to speak.
Yes that's what I mean. Nothing that can be called upon at will on break point or to win him easy points on a regular basis the way someone like a Tsonga can because of his size and therefore easy power or big serve. Gilles can't do that. He has to rely on his speed instinct to see where he thinks the next shot of his opponent is going to go and where he needs to be. It's much more a chess game for him than a bulldozer approach like Tsonga. Bottom line, it's very rarely in Gilles' hands on the court. At least at first. He has to adapt and wear his opponents down first.

I like the analogy, as gross as it may be because I hate spiders, that one of the announcers gave in describing Gilles' game by likening him to that of a spider who constructs a web on the court and makes his opponent get stuck in it and watches as they twist and turn and tire themselves out and once they are exhausted and worn down, he swoops in for the kill, picking up the pieces and taking them out.

Another good analogy I heard from Rob koenig I believe it was was that Gilles doesn't go in and blow an opponent away with brute force and heavy body blows with say a giant axe like a Tsonga might, but rather, chips away at all the major arteries over and over with a tiny dagger slowly bleeding out his opponent.

Graphic descriptions to be sure, but oddly enough, very true.
GilleSimonAddict is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2013, 11:15 PM   #1050
country flag Casp83
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 120
Casp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond reputeCasp83 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: 2013 Spring European Clay Season, Allez!

Caricatural descriptions of his game, he doesn't always play like that, wearing down an opponent, he can win relatively easily sometimes when he serves better, makes few UES and feels more confident to play more aggressively when he wants to like against Bautista Agut and Del Potro in Marseille.
He doesn't use brute force to beat an opponent like Jo or Berdych, that's for sure but he has the ability to change the pace of the ball quickly on both sides to surprise opponents thanks to his court sense and positioning while staying consistent from the baseline, that's definitely a winning strategy and a "weapon".
Highlights of a match against a lower ranked player:
http://youtu.be/7sxMJ6bM9zA

Last edited by Casp83 : 04-29-2013 at 11:58 PM.
Casp83 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios