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Old 04-27-2013, 07:34 PM   #166
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
I am denying entirely that there has been a massive improvement. There is absolutely no evidence for that.

He is slightly more consistent, but in terms of improvement I simply don't see it.
It's kind of semantics, though. 7 - 10% improvement in W/L percentage per year. Maybe we agree that's "modest" improvement.

If it continues, where will Raonic be in 4 - 5 years?
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:35 PM   #167
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Raonic can servebot his way to a Wimbledon title, especially indoors but he's definitely not up there for potential. At least Dimitrov can play some shots even if both their movement is poor.
No he can't. Winning Wimbledon is an extremely difficult thing to do and takes much more than a few good serves.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:35 PM   #168
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Yup, I'm afraid WMF is tilting at windmills here.

Regarding Raonic, he's relatively new on tour and young and he is among the 10-12 best players in the world probably, so obviously he's pretty good. I said in another thread that I fear he might face the same problem Del Potro has after his surgery: he keeps getting niggly injuries all the time (and withdrawing from events sometimes), which makes it very hard to build momentum. It's even tougher for him because, unlike JMDP who has already proved himself and has the confidence of being a Slam winner, Raonic must be eager to have a breakthrough run at a big event - which is not viable unless he manages to build confidence and momentum over a sustained period of time. I feel these niggly injuries he seems to get far too often have held him back and could continue to do so.
Yes, I have a feeling Milos' health will decide a lot about how his career ultimately ends up. The 2011 injury at Wimbledon hurt his development for quite a bit there. He didn't come back until the fall and wasn't the same player he was before until the following spring. If he stays healthy and keeps improving at the rate he has, though, I think he can be a consistent top 10 player for a long time and be a threat in some of the bigger tournaments on tour.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:36 PM   #169
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
Oh, so winning more matches and seeing your ranking rise immensely in two short years (from 150s to near 10) is a sign of a player regressing then?
But he's not winning more matches in the events that matter. How difficult is this for you to understand?
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:37 PM   #170
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
It's kind of semantics, though. 7 - 10% improvement in W/L percentage per year. Maybe we agree that's "modest" improvement.

If it continues, where will Raonic be in 4 - 5 years?
What percentage improvement has there been in Master/Slam events?
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:43 PM   #171
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
But he's not winning more matches in the events that matter. How difficult is this for you to understand?
Except in the other part of the post that you ignored and didn't quote, I showed you that he was:

Quote:
And in Milos' first four slams, he went 4-4. In Milos last five slams, he's gone 11-5. Yep, no improvement at all there either.
So if he's winning more matches on the whole, winning more in the significant events, and raising his ranking over 140 spots in two years, how exactly could anyone possibly say he's not improving? Unless, of course, they were just trolling and had no intention of abiding by the facts.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:45 PM   #172
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
Except in the other part of the post that you ignored and didn't quote, I showed you that he was:



So if he's winning more matches on the whole, winning more in the significant events, and raising his ranking over 140 spots in two years, how exactly could anyone possibly say he's not improving? Unless, of course, they were just trolling and had no intention of abiding by the facts.
You are like Lenders, you pick and choose your facts.

Milos is more consistent now, but he has gone no further in a Slam than he did in 2011.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You say he is winning more in the significant events? Again, that is through consistency in being able to win the early rounds. As soon as he faces a major challenge he loses.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:49 PM   #173
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
What percentage improvement has there been in Master/Slam events?
Milos Raonic:

2010 slams: 0% (0-1)
2011 slams: 57% (4-3)
2012 slams: 67% (8-4)
2013 slams: 75% (3-1)

2010 T1000: 0% (0-1)
2011 T1000: 42% (5-7)
2012 T1000: 53% (9-8)
2013 T1000: 60% (3-2)

Why must you persist, WMF? How much longer am I going to have to keep providing the evidence to prove every one of your trolling attempts wrong?
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:50 PM   #174
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
Milos Raonic:

2010 slams: 0% (0-1)
2011 slams: 57% (4-3)
2012 slams: 67% (8-4)
2013 slams: 75% (3-1)

2010 T1000: 0% (0-1)
2011 T1000: 42% (5-7)
2012 T1000: 53% (9-8)
2013 T1000: 60% (3-2)

Why must you persist, WMF? How much longer am I going to have to keep providing the evidence to prove every one of your trolling attempts wrong?
In those events, how many players ranked above him has he beaten?
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:51 PM   #175
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Old 04-27-2013, 07:51 PM   #176
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Old 04-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #177
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
You are like Lenders, you pick and choose your facts.

Milos is more consistent now, but he has gone no further in a Slam than he did in 2011.
You criticize someone for picking and choosing facts (despite the fact that only one of us is looking at the entire picture with his win percentage improvement in all events and his rapid ranking rise in two years) and then do the very thing you disapprove of. Amazing stuff.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:53 PM   #178
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

Milos&Marat, you seem to be struggling to understand so I will break it down for you:

Is Milos more consistent? Yes
Has Milos improved? Yes
Is Milos a threat to the players ranked above him? No
Is there any evidence to say he will become a threat? No

It is as simple as that.

He has reached a glass ceiling in that he cannot get past the current crop of players that are in front of him.

Should all 12 of them retire and no decent youngsters appear then he might win an event of significance, but it won't be because he is a great player.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:53 PM   #179
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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In those events, how many players ranked above him has he beaten?
This.

There is no doubt that Raonic is a more consistent player now but is his best level really any higher?

I'm not so sure.
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Old 04-27-2013, 07:53 PM   #180
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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What percentage improvement has there been in Master/Slam events?
W/L at slams/masters was 47% in 2011, 59% in 2012 and 66% in 2013 so far. So, 25% and 12% improvements respectively.
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