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View Poll Results: Should FO change Rafa's ranking so that he doesn't possibly meet with Nole in QF?

Yes, Rafa should be ranked higher for FO; he deserves it. 32 24.43%
No, Nadal should be ranked based on his ATP points without any adjustment. 99 75.57%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-26-2013, 05:08 AM   #76
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

Fed was seeded 1 or 2 since 2004 but he clearly wasn't a dominant force on Masters and French Open clay. He barely won any hardcourt Masters titles since 2009.
He obviously was close to losing to 29 year old Haas & Del Po. He had the opportunity to be #1 because his draws at French Open & Wimbledon were walkovers. Fed had shorter schedules since he cancelled Davis Cup since 2004. He had the most easy Madrid, Hamburg and Rome draws. McEnroe, among the morons, proclaimed Fed the Nadal beater. What foolery!
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:18 AM   #77
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Johansen View Post
People say Rafa vs Nole would be a bad QF, but I don't think so. It would create a lot of excitement for the tournament as it would open up the draw for others to have a chance.
Sure,match itself would be interesting, but too early in the tournament. They are 2 best claycourters in the world, they should play in final . If someone beats them before final and draw opens, it is OK ( just like Söderling did in 2009 ),upsets are part of tennis, but whole purpose of seeding is that top guns would NOT meet EACH OTHER early.

If it was my decision, I would seed :

#1 Djokovic
#2 Nadal

all others according to their rankings. IMO, it would be appropriate that world # 1 is also # 1 seed, it is position of honor.

BTW, will Fed get better seeding in Wimbledon than his ranking because he collected good points from grass last year ? :
150 Halle + 2000 Wimby + 450 Olympics = 2600 points

I think Murray got 1950 points from grass. Do they count Olympic points for this year Wimbledon seeding "formula" or will they ignore it, because it was not every year event ? If they ignore it, Federer is even more superior with 2150 points, Murka only 1200 .
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:21 AM   #78
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

Stupid thread. Anyone who still takes Mcenroe seriously is a clown.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:20 AM   #79
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post
Yes, but for RG, number 3 is not much better than number 5, because they could still miss their Rafole final, unless they rig the draw. But I'm sure there's a formula that would ensure Rafa is 1 or 2, e.g. last year's winner gets a million extra points or something, yeah that would do it.

So angry about this!!
But what's unreasonable about a seeding formula that prevents Nadal from playing another Top 4 seed (which with clay weighting would probably be Djoker, Fed, Nadal, Ferrer) before the semis? I'm not interested in whether there's a Rafole final; I just want to see seedings reflecting reality. And the reality is that Nadal is odds-on to make the semis.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:56 AM   #80
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
But what's unreasonable about a seeding formula that prevents Nadal from playing another Top 4 seed (which with clay weighting would probably be Djoker, Fed, Nadal, Ferrer) before the semis? I'm not interested in whether there's a Rafole final; I just want to see seedings reflecting reality. And the reality is that Nadal is odds-on to make the semis.
A formula is in principle better than just a decision by committee, as long as it is a reasonable formula and it is published well in advance.

The difficulty comes when a tournament decides to use a new formula when it has not done so in previous years, and when it decides just a few weeks before the tournament is due to start. This is especially a big problem when the tournament admits that the only reason for doing this is because of the current ranking of a specific player. Any formula produced is likely to be viewed with suspicion, e.g. something tells me there might be reasonable formulas that might not improve Rafa's ranking because the gap between him and the top 4 might be too great, depending on how he and Ferrer perform in the next few weeks. Therefore, as we know, the tournament will just wait until nearer the RG draw, so that they can produce a formula that gives them the result that they desire, or else will just flat out admit that they have decided by committee.

Another problem is the player concerned has lost his ranking because he has missed over half a season. Protected rankings exist only for the purposes of tournament entry lists, not for seeding purposes. Other players coming back from injury are not accorded any special treatment, so why should an exception be made for Rafael Nadal?

The overall point is that if any change to the seeding process is to be made, it should be agreed upon well in advance, preferably 12 months or more in advance, in order to avoid the impression/reality that tournaments would just like to pick and choose the draws for themselves, in order to maximise what they see as their commercial interests.

The commercial aspects of the game should follow on from the organisation of a fair sporting contest. It is corrupt and ultimately counterproductive to mess around with the sport in the search for better short-term commercial outcomes.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:18 AM   #81
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

for all Fedtards that want Nadal seeded 5th I hope he draws Fed in the QF........
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #82
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post
A formula is in principle better than just a decision by committee, as long as it is a reasonable formula and it is published well in advance.

The difficulty comes when a tournament decides to use a new formula when it has not done so in previous years, and when it decides just a few weeks before the tournament is due to start. This is especially a big problem when the tournament admits that the only reason for doing this is because of the current ranking of a specific player. Any formula produced is likely to be viewed with suspicion, e.g. something tells me there might be reasonable formulas that might not improve Rafa's ranking because the gap between him and the top 4 might be too great, depending on how he and Ferrer perform in the next few weeks. Therefore, as we know, the tournament will just wait until nearer the RG draw, so that they can produce a formula that gives them the result that they desire, or else will just flat out admit that they have decided by committee.

Another problem is the player concerned has lost his ranking because he has missed over half a season. Protected rankings exist only for the purposes of tournament entry lists, not for seeding purposes. Other players coming back from injury are not accorded any special treatment, so why should an exception be made for Rafael Nadal?

The overall point is that if any change to the seeding process is to be made, it should be agreed upon well in advance, preferably 12 months or more in advance, in order to avoid the impression/reality that tournaments would just like to pick and choose the draws for themselves, in order to maximise what they see as their commercial interests.

The commercial aspects of the game should follow on from the organisation of a fair sporting contest. It is corrupt and ultimately counterproductive to mess around with the sport in the search for better short-term commercial outcomes.
I certainly agree it would be wrong to introduce a seeding formula purely for the benefit of one player. But there should be a seeding formula reflecting performance on clay in the same way Wimbledon's reflects performance on grass, & if the current situation jolts the R.G. organizers into introducing one, I'm not going to complain.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:27 AM   #83
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
I certainly agree it would be wrong to introduce a seeding formula purely for the benefit of one player. But there should be a seeding formula reflecting performance on clay in the same way Wimbledon's reflects performance on grass, & if the current situation jolts the R.G. organizers into introducing one, I'm not going to complain.
If RG were going to do this seeding thing. It should have been done years ago when there was greater differences between the surfaces. Kuerten never got number 1 seed at RG nor did Bruguera or Muster when was dominating.

Funny they want to bring it in now or there is talk of it.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:32 AM   #84
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

That would be unfair for other guys on tour. Nobody cares if they've been injured for months, they still don't get a higher seeding. The system should be the same for everyone. Leave it as it is.

Quote:
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Idea is not to protect Nadal, in RG he doesnt need protection. It is to protect other top players so they couldnt play Nadal before semifinal and lose early.Especially to make sure Nadal - Djoko match will not happen before final.Who would want to watch Nadull-Ferrer final ?
I bet lot of people thought the same before RG 2009 and they didn't expect Nadal falling out in 4th round. It will be an unfair support for him if he gets an easier draw also because an easy road to the final can leave him with more gas in the tank especially if he plays a long 5-setter against Nole in the last match.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:52 AM   #85
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
I certainly agree it would be wrong to introduce a seeding formula purely for the benefit of one player. But there should be a seeding formula reflecting performance on clay in the same way Wimbledon's reflects performance on grass, & if the current situation jolts the R.G. organizers into introducing one, I'm not going to complain.
You agree it would be wrong, but then say you won't complain!

If the current situation has suddenly awoken RG to the possibility that seedings could be based on a different formula, maybe they could announce a system to apply from 2014 onwards.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:25 PM   #86
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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for all Fedtards that want Nadal seeded 5th I hope he draws Fed in the QF........
what's fun in another replay of the last 8 years? yeah I want Nadal to face djokovic in the QF, then Del po/murray, then Fed.

Let him win the hard way if he can. Tired of dull getting the easiest possible draws at every tournament...
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:33 PM   #87
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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for all Fedtards that want Nadal seeded 5th I hope he draws Fed in the QF........
Fed stands a better chance against Nadal in the QF than in F
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:39 PM   #88
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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Fed stands a better chance against Nadal in the QF than in F
will still lose
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:41 PM   #89
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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Fed stands a better chance against Nadal in the QF than in F
False. 0% vs. 0%
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:06 PM   #90
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Default Re: McEnroe: Nadal should be top seed at French Open

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That would be unfair for other guys on tour. Nobody cares if they've been injured for months, they still don't get a higher seeding. The system should be the same for everyone. Leave it as it is.



I bet lot of people thought the same before RG 2009 and they didn't expect Nadal falling out in 4th round. It will be an unfair support for him if he gets an easier draw also because an easy road to the final can leave him with more gas in the tank especially if he plays a long 5-setter against Nole in the last match.
You think # 2 seed gets easier draw all the way to title than # 5 ? How ? Only thing "easier" is he is guaranteed not to play vs # 1 seed before final. Not much of advantage if we talk about Nadal, whose goal is not to get into final , but to win it.

For Murray, yes,it would be great to be #2 seed, especially if all 3 clay greats- Djoko, Nadal and Federer - are on other half of the draw .It would make easier to get into final, maybe he would be happy to just play there, only slam final he never played before...

As for possible tough match vs Djoko and losing in next round - I dont think it is a problem for Nadal.RG is not Madrid 2009. They have rest days between matches in Paris.Fed played 2 tough 5-setters in RG 2009 and still cruised in next match.

In general : I think Nadal himself does not care so much how is he seeded. He may as well be unseeded, he is still favorite to win it. But I think Djokovic cares,Fed cares, Murray cares.They sure dont want to play vs Nadal in QF.

Last, but not least, there is question of points and money. Losing to Nadal in Paris is not something surprising.I think every top player knows it. But it is big difference in points and money if you lose in QF instead of SF or final.
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