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View Poll Results: Is del Potro the fifth best tennis player on planet Earth at the moment?

Yes, easily 81 29.14%
It's between him and Berdych/Tsonga or both 59 21.22%
No, Ferrer is 110 39.57%
He's one of the best four 28 10.07%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-22-2013, 06:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
I said in the post you quoted.

And how is he behind Federer atm in your mind? Tell me please, what has Federer done this year? Just because he reached AO SF? Then I guess Ferrer is the 3rd best player atm, no? He reached AO SF also and has done more than Fed apart from that..

As I said, I expect Fed to be back rather soon, be until that, he hasn't shown me anything that would make me think he's the 3rd best player atm.
I dont place them based on results I do it based on their game and Rafa is number 2 in the world above Delpo,so is Fed
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
And what does 'in general' mean? Their peak level? Their achievements? Average level in their careers? Since they become top10? top5? In Slams? Slams and Masters? Against the top4? Against top10?

When you compare Delpo and Ferrer (since we all know that's what you are doing), we know few things for sure. Delpo has a higher peak level and is more talented. Ferrer is a harder worker. They are both MM kings and you don't see them often not winning a tournament where they are #1 seeds. And also, Delpo's 'average' goes up and down, but Ferrer's average is steady. Ferrer is never in form or out of form. Even when he 'is' the difference in his level is much smaller than the difference in Delpo's level that he tends to show. Delpo is a bigger threat to the very top guys because of that. You never know if he's going to have a good or a bad match, while you know what Ferrer beings to the table and it's almost never enough to beat a top4 player (bar Murray on clay).

You define me what you mean by 'better player in general' and I'll tell you.
Just in general. Who is more likely to take down the players at the top (Djokovic, Federer, Nadal...) and really shake things up? I agree that Ferrer is more 'consistent', mostly (actually only) due to JMDP's inability to stay healthy/fit for prolonged periods. But as you admitted in your first post here indirectly, not only is JMDP the fifth best player in the world, in the rare occasions where he does manage to stay healthy for a relatively long period he can mix it up with the top 4 on even terms, as his 5-5 record in the past 10 matches against them shows (and not all of these matches were played during such periods anyway). He's the only one who can beat all of Federer, Nadal, Djokovic... without it being a major upset.

This is what I mean with better player; all of the top players are very wary of the threat Del Potro represents regardless of his form or anything else, he's someone who can really shake things up far more than anyone below the top 4. Despite struggling with his health all the time, he has shown that at his best he can mix it up with the top 4 and split wins with them, which no one else really has - that makes him the fifth best player in the world.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:44 PM   #33
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Certinfy View Post
The rankings say Nadal.

Fuck off Lenders.


Nadal may have lost Monte Carlo, but he's still #5
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:44 PM   #34
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Moozza View Post
Murray is the second best player in the world you clown. Not third, not fourth, not fifth. Second. The results clearly back this up. How you can put Nadal and Del Potro above him is beyond me, must be some sort of logic that only makes sense to haters.
I am talking about form. If you want to talk about results and numbers, then Federer is better than him. See the rankings table.
Nadal hasn't even played AO, where Murray got 1200 points, and Nadal is almost even with him in the race and will probably in front of him just after Madrid. Are you that dumb?
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:51 PM   #35
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Hypnotize View Post
The are a few problems with this opinion:

1. Ferrer is over 2200 points ahead of Del Potro in the rankings.
2. Ferrer bitch-slapped Del Potro at Wimbledon and grass is Ferrer's worst surface.
3. Ferrer leads their head 2 head by some margin.
lol so pretty much everything.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
This is what I mean with better player; all of the top players are very wary of the threat Del Potro represents regardless of his form or anything else, he's someone who can really shake things up far more than anyone below the top 4. Despite struggling with his health all the time, he has shown that at his best he can mix it up with the top 4 and split wins with them, which no one else really has - that makes him the fifth best player in the world.
Imagine he was only good against the top 4, but everyone else could beat him with ease. By your reasoning he would still be fifth in the world even though everyone below him could beat him.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:55 PM   #37
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
Imagine he was only good against the top 4, but everyone else could beat him with ease. By your reasoning he would still be fifth in the world even though everyone below him could beat him.
This is an impossible scenario: first of all he'd not even get to face the top 4 if everyone else beat him easily. Besides, if a certain game was effective against the top 4 but easy pickings for the rest of the field, we'd have like the weakest top 4 in history, no?
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:55 PM   #38
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
I dont place them based on results I do it based on their game and Rafa is number 2 in the world above Delpo,so is Fed
We will have to agree to disagree. Fed wasn't exactly in best form at the AO and since then his form has only gone down. Only player worth mentioning this year was Tsonga and he played a goodish match vs Murray. And apart from that he hasn't done anything. And it's clearly due to bad form (for his standards), not some God form from Berdych or Benny. What I saw from Delpo this year is better than what I saw from Fed. He did, after all beat Novak and Murray, as well as that same Benny who beat Roger just a day before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Just in general. Who is more likely to take down the players at the top (Djokovic, Federer, Nadal...) and really shake things up? I agree that Ferrer is more 'consistent', mostly (actually only) due to JMDP's inability to stay healthy/fit for prolonged periods. But as you admitted in your first post here indirectly, not only is JMDP the fifth best player in the world, in the rare occasions where he does manage to stay healthy for a relatively long period he can mix it up with the top 4 on even terms, as his 5-5 record in the past 10 matches against them shows (and not all of these matches were played during such periods anyway). He's the only one who can beat all of Federer, Nadal, Djokovic... without it being a major upset.

This is what I mean with better player; all of the top players are very wary of the threat Del Potro represents regardless of his form or anything else, he's someone who can really shake things up far more than anyone below the top 4. Despite struggling with his health all the time, he has shown that at his best he can mix it up with the top 4 and split wins with them, which no one else really has - that makes him the fifth best player in the world.
Well, Lenders, here's where your arguments begin. Your definition of a better player isn't the definition some other posters use. The answer is obviously Delpo. I would always pick him to beat a top guy or win a Slam ahead of Ferrer. And I agree, to me Delpo is a better player, but I totally understand people who say otherwise.
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:56 PM   #39
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Moozza View Post
Murray is the second best player in the world you clown. Not third, not fourth, not fifth. Second. The results clearly back this up. How you can put Nadal and Del Potro above him is beyond me, must be some sort of logic that only makes sense to haters.
Lol don't even argue with them. Murray has been in 3 straight grandslam finals but the wawrinka match erases that. Just like after the Haas match that meant Nole is really the word #7 or something
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
Lol don't even argue with them. Murray has been in 3 straight grandslam finals but the wawrinka match erases that. Just like after the Haas match that meant Nole is really the word #7 or something
Your logic is retarded. Look at last year's Wibmledon. Novak was before that in last 4 Slam finals and won 3 of them. You want to tell me Federer wasn't a better player than Novak in that moment? Or that Novak wasn't a better player than Nadal right after RG 2011 (when he was ranked 2nd) because Nadal held 3 of 4 Slams in that moment?
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:09 PM   #41
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

Yes, Delpo is the 5th best in the world behind Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, and Fed.

Ferrer doing great against the rest of the field means jack squat if he can't beat the top 4.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:17 PM   #42
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
This is an impossible scenario: first of all he'd not even get to face the top 4 if everyone else beat him easily. Besides, if a certain game was effective against the top 4 but easy pickings for the rest of the field, we'd have like the weakest top 4 in history, no?
Well, it can't be literally everyone because he would need some wins to have a ranking in the first place. But he could stay in the top 100 by 'vulturing' challengers, and meet the 'big 4' in R1.

As to the second part, let's say he's a 'Gulbis' type. He has no real motivation to play tennis, unless it's against the top 4, where he plays out of his mind. But he'll always lack the commitment to do any better. Is he the fifth best player in the world?
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

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Originally Posted by Kyle_Johansen View Post
Yes, Delpo is the 5th best in the world behind Djokovic, Nadal, Murray, and Fed.

Ferrer doing great against the rest of the field means jack squat if he can't beat the top 4.
Exactly, you put it perfectly.

How can you be the fifth best player when the first four don't fear you in any way? Conversely, all of them know how good Del Potro is and that he can compete on even terms with them when peaking - Federer and Djokovic are even on record, on different occasions, saying that facing Del Potro is the same as facing another one of the top 4 from a mental point of view.

Unlike Tsonga and Berdych, Del Potro doesn't need to take any extra risks, when healthy for a prolonged period/in form, he can match any of the top 4 from the baseline and go toe to toe with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
Well, Lenders, here's where your arguments begin. Your definition of a better player isn't the definition some other posters use. The answer is obviously Delpo. I would always pick him to beat a top guy or win a Slam ahead of Ferrer. And I agree, to me Delpo is a better player, but I totally understand people who say otherwise.
I can't. Is Ferrer fully fit/healthy more often than Del Potro? Unfortunately yes. Is he a better player? Absolutely not. Taking it as a given that the best four players are Djokovic, Nadal, Federer and Murray, there's not a single one of them who would not choose to face Ferrer over JMDP in a heartbeat if a big match were on the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
Well, it can't be literally everyone because he would need some wins to have a ranking in the first place. But he could stay in the top 100 by 'vulturing' challengers, and meet the 'big 4' in R1.

As to the second part, let's say he's a 'Gulbis' type. He has no real motivation to play tennis, unless it's against the top 4, where he plays out of his mind. But he'll always lack the commitment to do any better. Is he the fifth best player in the world?
In that case, he'd be the fifth best player in the world when taking tennis seriously. Of course it's hard to get any sympathy while showing such lack of commitment. But yes, it'd not be outrageous to claim that such player at his best was the fifth best player in the world, although not consistently of course.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:25 PM   #44
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

Federer went on record saying Delpo would have been #1 in 2010 had he not been injured. The most he's ever said about Ferrer is that he has the best return in the world (a few years ago I think). I believe that shows how highly the big 4 think of Delpo.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:27 PM   #45
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Default Re: The reality is that del Potro is easily the fifth best tennis player in the world

Always nice to see Lenders being bitch slapped around.
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