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Old 03-31-2013, 08:19 PM   #1
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Default Gaining more respect for moderators.

Moderators seem to want more respect and support for their decisions. Perhaps posters on this sitE can help them with suggestions how they can have a better relationship with members of the board they are moderating.

My suggestion is that they not close threads where members disagree with their decisions or threads where members are asking that site rules be changed. This simply produces more anger and ill will.

Also, there are moderators who to my surprise rarely post on the board and have been members only for a short while, Perhaps more interaction with members would be a good idea.

Perhaps others could add ideas and be constructive. It seems that currently the only way to register disapproval or to promote change is to leave the board so their are fewer posters and post. I don't think anyone really wants that. I know I don't .
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

My understanding of existing rules are posters are given red card, etc for making posts against the rule. Posters may have been temporary banned as a result and when a poster has an accumulation of 3 red cards, there is ground for a permanent ban.

It is pointed out by other posters that this rule is not fair for posters who have been here for a long time because a poster who has 3 red cards in 10 years will be treated the same as one in here less than 6 months. I suggest an expiration date for a red card. Like demerit points for driver licenses in many governments, the points will expired after a period of time. Please suggest how long a red card should expire.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by star View Post
Moderators seem to want more respect and support for their decisions. Perhaps posters on this sitE can help them with suggestions how they can have a better relationship with members of the board they are moderating.

My suggestion is that they not close threads where members disagree with their decisions or threads where members are asking that site rules be changed. This simply produces more anger and ill will.

Also, there are moderators who to my surprise rarely post on the board and have been members only for a short while, Perhaps more interaction with members would be a good idea.

Perhaps others could add ideas and be constructive. It seems that currently the only way to register disapproval or to promote change is to leave the board so their are fewer posters and post. I don't think anyone really wants that. I know I don't .
I'm definitely in favour of that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
My understanding of existing rules are posters are given red card, etc for making posts against the rule. Posters may have been temporary banned as a result and when a poster has an accumulation of 3 red cards, there is ground for a permanent ban.

It is pointed out by other posters that this rule is not fair for posters who have been here for a long time because a poster who has 3 red cards in 10 years will be treated the same as one in here less than 6 months. I suggest an expiration date for a red card. Like demerit points for driver licenses in many governments, the points will expired after a period of time. Please suggest how long a red card should expire.
Under our current system, the infractions do expire (see the second column):

Code:
 
 Offense                        Expires                        Maximum
  
 Discriminatory remarks         Never                          3
 Wishing injury                 Never                          3
 Wishing death                  Never                          2
 Uttering threats               Never                          2
 Multiple accounts              Never                          2
 Harassment                     Never                          3
 Violation of privacy           Never                          3
 Bashing Moderators             1 Year                         7
 Spam (advertising)             -                              1
 Porn/Inappropriate images      1 year                         5
 Signature rule violation       1 year                         7
 Editing a mod's changes        1 year                         5
 Posting for banned member      1 year                         5
 Personal attack                1 year                         10
 Inappropriate language         1 year                         10
 Forum disruptions              1 year                         10
 Baiting                        1 year                         10
 Trolling                       1 year                         10
 Doping Allegations             1 year                         10
 Match Fixing Allegations       1 year                         10
Only infractions for serious offences, such as wishing death, don't expire.

This means that technically, someone who gets 3 discriminatory remarks infractions could be permanently banned. But in practice the mods have never banned anyone with such a low number of infractions. Typically, we don't think about banning someone unless they have accumulated at least 15 infractions (in CF's case, he had 15 or 16 in total, including 3 for discriminatory remarks, and 10 for personal attacks).

Infractions that expire are not taken into account for temporary bans. So, if someone has 8 personal attack infractions in one year, but then has no personal attack infractions until 2 years later, the 9th personal attack infraction the person gets will be counted as if it is his or her only personal attack infraction for the purpose of a temporary ban. However, if the person is being considered for a permanent ban, all of his or her infractions, regardless of whether they have expired or not, will be considered.

We chose to do this as a way of acknowledging improvement in the behavior of those who, despite a period of accumulating infractions, eventually show significant improvements in their behavior. It would be unfair to hold them accountable for past behavior that no longer represents the kind of member they are.

On the other hand, the total number of infractions (expired or not) is a good overall assessment of a member to decide a permanent ban, because it shows that, despite occasional periods of good behaviour, they may nevertheless be the type of member that will never change. This was the case for a number of members who would lay low for brief periods but frequently get back to their disruptive ways, for example, as soon as their bans expired. E.g. the former member Orgasmatron is someone like that who comes to mind, and I think SdG, who was permanently banned after 22 infractions, was the same.

That's the current state of the rules, and the logic behind having the current way of temporary and permanent bans.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

I'm glad you posted that as is gives members more information.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:12 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

As much as I used to think the general opinion on moderation was often exaggerated and unfair, a few recent occasions have caused my opinion to change.

Right now the main problem to me is the huge barrier in communication between moderators and posters. Are moderators really willing to read and consider the posters opinions? I don't think so, at least some of them aren't. And the Corey Feldman ban shows that.

There was a whole forum against it, claiming that the Rules for Permanent Banning are exaggerated and needed to be reviewed. And what effect does this have? None, zero. It seems that the general opinion isn't relevant.

And then there is this post, supposedly the reason why the Unban CF thread was closed:

Quote:
This thread contains the forum's feedback about someone being banned. It clearly belongs in this section of the forum.

It's over 500 posts long. That's more than enough for anyone to say whatever they had to say. This discussion is over as far as I am concerned.
What is this? So a thread is over whenever a moderator decides it is over, even though other posters might have something more to say? A thread is over when it's polemic and it's past 500+ posts? Where in the rules is that.

It would be a pretty good start if someone could come here and explain why that thread was closed, and eventually re-open it again, given the fact that the justification provided is beyond absurd.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

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Old 04-01-2013, 02:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingLamb View Post


Only infractions for serious offences, such as wishing death, don't expire.
I feel the permanent infractions (and several months ban) against me for "wishing death" was very unfair.

In that particular circumstances, it was actually I was wishing death against myself if I had been in that other poster position.
It was "If I were you, I would have jumped off the cliff" was interpreted as I wanted to kill the other person.

I can forgive the ban because it's already past, but the 30 points infractions, I'd like mods to remove it.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
I feel the permanent infractions (and several months ban) against me for "wishing death" was very unfair.

In that particular circumstances, it was actually I was wishing death against myself if I had been in that other poster position.
It was "If I were you, I would have jumped off the cliff" was interpreted as I wanted to kill the other person.

I can forgive the ban because it's already past, but the 30 points infractions, I'd like mods to remove it.
If you want to discuss your specific ban, I would recommend doing it via p.m. with the mod who gave you the infraction, or one of the admin (e.g. myself). Don't forget that we also have an appeal email for users to contact the mods when they are banned. Until we improve the appeal procedures, these are the avenues you have to work with.
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

I'm not sure how many posters are aware of Rule 19. I was not aware of it myself until last year and I don't really know when Rule 19 went into effect. And in someways it never did go into effect because this is what it says: (19) Do not create threads or posts questioning specific infractions or bans that you or another individual have received. If you do have a question, email askmtfmods@gmail.com
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mae View Post
I'm not sure how many posters are aware of Rule 19. I was not aware of it myself until last year and I don't really know when Rule 19 went into effect. And in someways it never did go into effect because this is what it says: (19) Do not create threads or posts questioning specific infractions or bans that you or another individual have received. If you do have a question, email askmtfmods@gmail.com
It strikes me that Rule 19 could actually undermine respect for moderators, because if implemented it would stifle a lot of healthy debate. Criticism is not such a terrible thing to endure, and it can in fact be quite helpful to allow it. People need to feel they have an outlet if they are frustrated by decisions.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: Gaining more respect for moderators.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalkdust View Post
It strikes me that Rule 19 could actually undermine respect for moderators, because if implemented it would stifle a lot of healthy debate. Criticism is not such a terrible thing to endure, and it can in fact be quite helpful to allow it. People need to feel they have an outlet if they are frustrated by decisions.
Rule 19 only asks users not to create threads to specifically ask questions about their own specific infractions. It certainly does not prevent them from opening threads to comment on, or question, the general merit of a given rule.

The rule does not stifle health debate, but is there to ensure the forum isn't clogged by threads about matters that specifically relate to the person raising them, and which are better dealt with through other avenues.
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