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Old 02-27-2013, 08:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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Originally Posted by Naudio Spanlatine View Post
Nope. Nada. Zero.
Even if I didn't know you Dee I would know you are from the U.S. because that is exactly the same way I feel!
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:52 AM   #17
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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Originally Posted by Punky View Post
I had a long Debate with my Prof about that question today, i know some of you will see this and will say Amber but i really totally believe in it, yes i know there's wars and hunger BUT.

Women have rights, no more slaves, we have a half white half black as a President, less wars (You can check the percentage of wars in the last 100 years).
Cruelty as a popular entertainment, human victims as a religion, slavery as an instrument for saving employment, genocide as a way to obtain real estate, torture and mutilation as unusual punishments and the death penalty for misdemeanors and differences of opinions are all gone or Significantly decreased.
Global population has increased by almost 30% since 1992, more countries enter the latter stages of the demographic transition,Child mortality is down by around a third, Extreme poverty(the total number of people living on less than $1.25 a day) has fallen significantly (by around a third), There have been many significant social changes in the past two decades, including improvements in school attendance, literacy and female representation in positions of power and influence.
Borders have become more like nets than walls, and this means that wealth, ideas, information and talent can move freely around the globe.

Again, im not saying the world is perfect, i'm just saying it's better than yesterday and less than tomorrow.
"we"?!? freudian slip - is that how such suggestive mistake is called?
[obama is not president of the world.]

current distribution of power (asymmetrical multipolarity) is the most unstable model in international relations.
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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Originally Posted by zeleni View Post
"we"?!? freudian slip - is that how such suggestive mistake is called?
[obama is not president of the world.]

current distribution of power (asymmetrical multipolarity) is the most unstable model in international relations.
Lol I'm not that sophisticated, the we was in general in the world nothing more then that
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

interesting question Punky. I'm currently reading one of Chomsky's critiques on the US, so you've caught me in a bit of a negative mood about the state of the world.

There are aspects that are clearly going better: women's rights as you said, and gay's rights. On the other hand, I am very worried about the increase of religious fanaticism and the influence several holy books have on he fate of all.

Much will depend on the US attitude. Under Obama there is a real opportunity to seriously revise the way they view the world, but so far I don't see him doing this, sadly..
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

The world's state doesnt depend anymore on the US doing this and that, there is a shift going on that will make US pretty much irrelevant for world affairs.

I resent the left focusing so much on the US they cant see they are just kicking on a dying dog. Chomsky is a marxist utopist who grew up in the 68 generation when all problems of the world was simplified as a problem of capitalism or the west or colonial history when actually the problems are as old as mankind itself, even older...

The idea that the workers in China are slaves are pretty stupid, you are a slave when you dont work at free will. That is the definition of slave. Chinese workers had the alternative of working hard as farmers for a bowl of rice every day or get 3-4 times more wage working hard at industries, maybe buying a future for their children. You underestimate China if you think they are just slaves for the West, chinese are the greatest consumers of cars, mobile phones, electricity, computers and almost anything else in the world right now. They are right now draining resources from the rest of the world, investing longterm in getting food, coal, oil for their superfast growing middle class and only around 10% of their electricity production goes for export products.

The US was until recently the only superpower, China I belive should be called the last superpower.

Anyway while blaming on capitalism you fail to see the real problem, that is the monetary monopoly of central banks and the bank oligarchy which controls politicians, media and can take your tax money whenever they feel like it and can never fail. This could only happen with the support of big government, the debt culture were wealth is created from creating debts all the time at low interest rates, were savings drains unless you invest/consume immediately, it cant go on forever, the balloon will burst sooner rather than later.

Solution would be more freedom, regionalism, direct democracy and less centralised power were lobbyists easily can control politics, like is the case in Bryssel and Washington.

We need to take on the swiss model, that quiet little country who minds its own business and has 3% unemployment, low crimerate, all kind of freedoms (economic, personal), real democracy and real working multiculture (that is, between cultures who are at the same level of progress and mutual respect), regionalism to the extent that many dont know who is the leader of the country.
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Old 02-27-2013, 03:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

No. Mug era.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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Originally Posted by sexybeast View Post
The world's state doesnt depend anymore on the US doing this and that, there is a shift going on that will make US pretty much irrelevant for world affairs.

I resent the left focusing so much on the US they cant see they are just kicking on a dying dog. Chomsky is a marxist utopist who grew up in the 68 generation when all problems of the world was simplified as a problem of capitalism or the west or colonial history when actually the problems are as old as mankind itself, even older...

The idea that the workers in China are slaves are pretty stupid, you are a slave when you dont work at free will. That is the definition of slave. Chinese workers had the alternative of working hard as farmers for a bowl of rice every day or get 3-4 times more wage working hard at industries, maybe buying a future for their children. You underestimate China if you think they are just slaves for the West, chinese are the greatest consumers of cars, mobile phones, electricity, computers and almost anything else in the world right now. They are right now draining resources from the rest of the world, investing longterm in getting food, coal, oil for their superfast growing middle class and only around 10% of their electricity production goes for export products.

The US was until recently the only superpower, China I belive should be called the last superpower.

Anyway while blaming on capitalism you fail to see the real problem, that is the monetary monopoly of central banks and the bank oligarchy which controls politicians, media and can take your tax money whenever they feel like it and can never fail. This could only happen with the support of big government, the debt culture were wealth is created from creating debts all the time at low interest rates, were savings drains unless you invest/consume immediately, it cant go on forever, the balloon will burst sooner rather than later.

Solution would be more freedom, regionalism, direct democracy and less centralised power were lobbyists easily can control politics, like is the case in Bryssel and Washington.

We need to take on the swiss model, that quiet little country who minds its own business and has 3% unemployment, low crimerate, all kind of freedoms (economic, personal), real democracy and real working multiculture (that is, between cultures who are at the same level of progress and mutual respect), regionalism to the extent that many dont know who is the leader of the country.
I wouldn´t be too sure about this. First of all, for awhile the power seems to shift towards China and away from the US, but the US is still the country that is engaged in an illegal war in Afghanistan and partly in Iraq, and is historically the only country to behave like this on a regular basis. Since as you mentioned the politicians are almost directly controlled by a host of elite companies with stakes in other countries, this is not likely to change. Neither is the US likely to dismantle their gigantic nuclear arsenal anytime soon (in defiance of the non-proliferation treaty). So they remain a force to be reckoned with, and one nutty enough to do something stupid.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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Originally Posted by Jverweij View Post
I wouldn´t be too sure about this. First of all, for awhile the power seems to shift towards China and away from the US, but the US is still the country that is engaged in an illegal war in Afghanistan and partly in Iraq, and is historically the only country to behave like this on a regular basis. Since as you mentioned the politicians are almost directly controlled by a host of elite companies with stakes in other countries, this is not likely to change. Neither is the US likely to dismantle their gigantic nuclear arsenal anytime soon (in defiance of the non-proliferation treaty). So they remain a force to be reckoned with, and one nutty enough to do something stupid.
All superpowers that ever existed have behaved like that, from the brittish empire to Sovjet union and the earlier ones like Spain in its golden era or obviously Japan/Nazigermany in 2nd world war.

US is not nutty enought to do anything stupid, that is an exageration beyond disbelief. US is not controlled by nuts but by very intelligent machiavelic figures, it never was controlled by George Bush or Obama or any other idiot you see on your tv screen. US and Russia thankfully has never had any nut with absolute power and neither will the super pragmatists who control China.

So dont worry about US nukes, I would worry about iranian, israeli and paquistan nukes. Russia, China and US all having a heavy loads of nukes establishes a status quo that on the contrary forbids truly great wars to break out, all of them are reasonable and dont want to start anything that would explode the world.

There is no reason to belive China wont use military strength to secure resources, investments, allies they have put in power in Africa and the middle east. Already you see these kind of global games beeing played out, where China and Russia defend with vetoes and loads of weapons to their monsters in Sudan, Syria and other countries while the US and the west defend with vetoes and selling weapons other monsters like terrorists throughout the middle east and handpicked dictators.

This is not about some good vs evil struggle, just the eternal game of power, securing resources, allies and investments. China will put their corrupt leaders all over Africa, handpicked by the communist party and then they will put investments, move chinese workers to those countries for neocolonialism and when they have enought military force to back up this tactical gaining of resources they will use it when rebels and democractic ellections risk all they have invested and risk chinese lives in Africa. Thrust me, this will happen before or later and China will behave as ruthlessly as they do in Tibet when they have hangar ships to defend their resources overseas.

The war in Afghanisthan is the last great war US will fight in a very long time, thrust me on this one. There is no more money to do anything with the debt building up by Washington at the moment. So dont you worry about US, the game is over for them. They couldnt even go into Syria when the press was doing everything to have Nato involved over there showing everyday in a year children's corpses and the media and israeli lobby doing all they can to get US to stop Iran from getting nukes. US is done as world police and the world will be the same when they are gone.

However, what I want to say is that there is nothing uniquely evil about the nature of power in the united states. It is universal in all countries that grow to have great power, an elite grabs it and holds it at all cost, goes to war for resources and tries to expand power. There is only one solution and that is to stop centralising power in big countries, regionalism is the way to go to fight corruption, lobbyism and militarism. Like the US in the late 19th century, people didnt know, didnt care and didnt ask anything from the president far away in Washington. People built their own communities, every city built and organised not by Washington and goverment but by the community. There was no central bank and people were free to trade in gold, silver or whatever other currency they chose. Ofcourse now that Washington has gained so much power it wont ever let it go.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

I definitely think the world is getting better, but I'm an incurable optimist. But my best argument in this is that we have Amber. The world is always better with Amber around and people like her. It all goes beyond religion or social difference.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:50 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

I think its inevitable that as China continues to grow economically and militarily, that a prox-y war in taiwan with the USA is inevitable. China insists that it be reintegrated with the mainland. Once that conventional war starts, all bets are off at that point. Then there's north korea. I'd say the chance of war in that part of the world is around 86.3%

(why is the word prox-y censored?)
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:33 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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I think its inevitable that as China continues to grow economically and militarily, that a prox-y war in taiwan with the USA is inevitable. China insists that it be reintegrated with the mainland. Once that conventional war starts, all bets are off at that point. Then there's north korea. I'd say the chance of war in that part of the world is around 86.3%

(why is the word prox-y censored?)
It's interesting that China had some 12-story housing complex that had done some spying and hacking on US, including phishing to potentially get access to corporate secrets. The war the coming years will very much be an information war. China has already gotten hold of so much technology due to West pretty much giving it for free by moving companies there. Now they have reached a level where they're even working on putting up their own independent GPS system with satellites among other things. They have come very far and while that could be seen as a good thing it's also a major threat.


In a situation of war US nor EU won't be happy to have put a majority of the production in China and Taiwan. Having R&D, administration and sales offices isn't gonna count for much compared tobig monster factories and the infrastructure to handle them. We're basically in a situation soon where China will decide about the world order. If they don't want to follow some international treaty they can ignore it. If they don't want to limit CO2 emissions they can ignore it. If they don't want to join in on some boycott from buying from say Iran, North Korea or whatever they can ignore it. No-one will have power over China anymore. We can just hope that China remain good guys, because China will set the example for India and many other countries that have seen rapid economic growth.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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We're basically in a situation soon where China will decide about the world order. If they don't want to follow some international treaty they can ignore it. If they don't want to limit CO2 emissions they can ignore it. If they don't want to join in on some boycott from buying from say Iran, North Korea or whatever they can ignore it. No-one will have power over China anymore. We can just hope that China remain good guys, because China will set the example for India and many other countries that have seen rapid economic growth.
Tbh, USA set an example for that long time ago, they also don't care/ignore whatever they choose to, and nobody has power over them. Good/bad guys concept is also long gone
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:29 AM   #28
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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All superpowers that ever existed have behaved like that, from the brittish empire to Sovjet union and the earlier ones like Spain in its golden era or obviously Japan/Nazigermany in 2nd world war.

US is not nutty enought to do anything stupid, that is an exageration beyond disbelief. US is not controlled by nuts but by very intelligent machiavelic figures, it never was controlled by George Bush or Obama or any other idiot you see on your tv screen. US and Russia thankfully has never had any nut with absolute power and neither will the super pragmatists who control China.

So dont worry about US nukes, I would worry about iranian, israeli and paquistan nukes. Russia, China and US all having a heavy loads of nukes establishes a status quo that on the contrary forbids truly great wars to break out, all of them are reasonable and dont want to start anything that would explode the world.

There is no reason to belive China wont use military strength to secure resources, investments, allies they have put in power in Africa and the middle east. Already you see these kind of global games beeing played out, where China and Russia defend with vetoes and loads of weapons to their monsters in Sudan, Syria and other countries while the US and the west defend with vetoes and selling weapons other monsters like terrorists throughout the middle east and handpicked dictators.

This is not about some good vs evil struggle, just the eternal game of power, securing resources, allies and investments. China will put their corrupt leaders all over Africa, handpicked by the communist party and then they will put investments, move chinese workers to those countries for neocolonialism and when they have enought military force to back up this tactical gaining of resources they will use it when rebels and democractic ellections risk all they have invested and risk chinese lives in Africa. Thrust me, this will happen before or later and China will behave as ruthlessly as they do in Tibet when they have hangar ships to defend their resources overseas.

The war in Afghanisthan is the last great war US will fight in a very long time, thrust me on this one. There is no more money to do anything with the debt building up by Washington at the moment. So dont you worry about US, the game is over for them. They couldnt even go into Syria when the press was doing everything to have Nato involved over there showing everyday in a year children's corpses and the media and israeli lobby doing all they can to get US to stop Iran from getting nukes. US is done as world police and the world will be the same when they are gone.

However, what I want to say is that there is nothing uniquely evil about the nature of power in the united states. It is universal in all countries that grow to have great power, an elite grabs it and holds it at all cost, goes to war for resources and tries to expand power. There is only one solution and that is to stop centralising power in big countries, regionalism is the way to go to fight corruption, lobbyism and militarism. Like the US in the late 19th century, people didnt know, didnt care and didnt ask anything from the president far away in Washington. People built their own communities, every city built and organised not by Washington and goverment but by the community. There was no central bank and people were free to trade in gold, silver or whatever other currency they chose. Ofcourse now that Washington has gained so much power it wont ever let it go.
let´s just stick to facts here instead of dogma´s mkay? the only country ever to launch a nuclear bomb, on civilian targets, twice, is the US, so naturally that is the first country I worry about. The reason I don't really worry about Pakistan, or Iran (as far as I know they don't have nukes) is that they know that launching a nuke means suicide. Israel is a whole different story, because it is roughly said an extension of America (or the other way around as it sometimes seems).

You are absolutely right in saying that every superpower has behaved in the way the US has over the past decades, but that does not make it ok. Furthermore, the technological advances of the past 60 years have made sure that the same behaviour can lead to way more destruction in a fraction of the time.

Quote:
US is not nutty enought to do anything stupid, that is an exageration beyond disbelief. US is not controlled by nuts but by very intelligent machiavelic figures, it never was controlled by George Bush or Obama or any other idiot you see on your tv screen. US and Russia thankfully has never had any nut with absolute power and neither will the super pragmatists who control China
.

are you living in the same world? Just in the last few years they have started 2 illegal wars, killing hundreds of thousands of people. But ofcourse these people being very far from you, this is nothing to worry about for you. The latter part is correct however, the entire political system is a huge straw-man for big influential companies.

I find your ultimate solution intriguing, because for me the solution would be the complete opposite: get rid of countries, have a world government, a world economy etc. Imo the only way to start seeing everyone as equals. This ofcourse is impossible right now, just as it is inevitable in the future.
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:32 AM   #29
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

Punky, I suggest you get hold of a copy of this book, its very much about this topic. Fantastic read

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Better-Angel...2051082&sr=1-1
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is the world getting better?

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Originally Posted by Jverweij View Post
let´s just stick to facts here instead of dogma´s mkay? the only country ever to launch a nuclear bomb, on civilian targets, twice, is the US, so naturally that is the first country I worry about. The reason I don't really worry about Pakistan, or Iran (as far as I know they don't have nukes) is that they know that launching a nuke means suicide. Israel is a whole different story, because it is roughly said an extension of America (or the other way around as it sometimes seems).

You are absolutely right in saying that every superpower has behaved in the way the US has over the past decades, but that does not make it ok. Furthermore, the technological advances of the past 60 years have made sure that the same behaviour can lead to way more destruction in a fraction of the time.
The US launched nuclear bombs when they were the only ones with the bomb, since then it has become impossible to use these bombs. What do you think Stalin, Hitler or the japanese empire would have done if they had the nuclear bomb? They would have wiped out their enemies, once city after the other.

I mean US dropped nuclear bomb on an enemy who had dropped biological weapons on civillians all over China, killing 10 milion people in that war alone. Sovjet union killed many more than the US in their brutal invasion of Nazi Germany. Even England bombed the hell out of Dresden killing as many people as the atomic bombs in that attack but unlike Hiroshima and Nazaki this city was destroyed without any purpose.

All I got to say is thank god the US got the bomb first, as I said the lesser evil among the powers of the world. Good guys, they are not and maybe it does not make it OK but you need to get over the idea that US is uniquely corrupt and evil compared to other superpowers that have been or will come.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jverweij View Post
are you living in the same world? Just in the last few years they have started 2 illegal wars, killing hundreds of thousands of people. But ofcourse these people being very far from you, this is nothing to worry about for you. The latter part is correct however, the entire political system is a huge straw-man for big influential companies.

One illegal war which was against Iraq, one partly legitimate war against Afghanisthan that was prolonged too long, way too long (should have wiped out Al Quaida and gone out of there immediately). US has the world's largest military and bases all over the world which means they have power to start wars overseas, doesnt mean they are nuts, someone who is nuts act completely illogical and I think even if the war in Iraq did not suit US interests it did suit the interests of individuals who planned the war, wether it be the war industry, the oil industry, israeli lobby or any other force that was decisive in pushing the buttons for US to invade the war. It suited their industry, Enron got oil contracts in IRaq, Israel got Saddam wiped out, military complex got bigger.

About illegal wars, China has illegaly occupied Tibet for 60 years and killing hundreds of thousands of people there. Afganisthan will be left to be dominated by their talibans in 1-2 years when the US leaves but Tibet will forever be dominated by the han chinese, soon probably replaced aswell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jverweij View Post
I find your ultimate solution intriguing, because for me the solution would be the complete opposite: get rid of countries, have a world government, a world economy etc. Imo the only way to start seeing everyone as equals. This ofcourse is impossible right now, just as it is inevitable in the future.

World government controlled by super lobbyists, banks and the media moghuls, far away from any of the real problems they invent solutions for? World government who attack any rebells who want to break free from this empire? You gotta be kidding me, that is plain and simply tyranny. There is no popular backing to this even if they will want to shove it in our guts, there will be no way to control power when a few have so much power over distribution of money.

Yeah, break down cultures, languages, unique traits of different regions and create one hybrid people who listen to Idol, eat Mcdonalds and drink Cocacola, speak english and all listen to the same propaganda. How wonderful, this brave new world of yours. Such easy sheep to control, so much power at the hands of a few.

Why you think small countries like Switzerland who doesnt take part of big unions (Nato, EU) without natural resources are so rich and have never fought in wars? Why you think Iceland recovered so fast from their economic meltdown? Why you think only small countries like Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, New Zeeland, Norway and Denmar are at the top of low corruption rankings?

Dont give a few too much power or you are bound for catastrophy.
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