[duong]

Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend

Okay, let me get this straight. Are you saying Federer has always been passionate about Davis Cup? Simple yes or no question... no 30,000 word thesis and the like mate.....

until 2004 yes : in 2004 he sadly made up his mind that he had spent a lot of energy in that competition for nothing and that he had better things to do, in his individual carreer yes.

I have a question : did you follow Federer in that time (before 2004) or not and would you have said what you say now about "has always been" in that time ?

Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend

If Legenda could win DC pretty much single handedly then Rogi could do it as well...

1. Ljubicic had Ancic as his teammate, and at least for doubles it was very precious. Same for Stepanek for Berdych. And both teams had a very lucky campaign.
2. Wawrinka for Fed has come when Fed was old ... and he's tight in singles in Davis cup, and their double has been very bad in recent years.

Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend

Face it mate, DC isn't high on his agenda, never has been and never will be. He has always preferred to base his schedule around singles success, that is his choice and its fair enough.

you can tell me "face it mate" I still have my own opinion and apparently I know more about Fed's story in Davis cup than you.

"Never has been" - "he has always preferred" : no just no I 100% disagree.

Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend

But to label him patriotic about DC is absolutely absurd...

Patriotism is another story than liking Davis cup, the link between both imo is an overused cliche.

[arm]

Originally Posted by duong

I always laugh at this argument : Fed flied and played in Australia on grass after his US Open semifinal in 2011 and nobody just noted it (and he didn't have to go there at all for the Olympics), and you know why ? because it's Fed and the cliche is "Fed doesn't care about Davis cup, Djokovic is a great patriot"

Fed likes to be with his boy-teammates and likes Davis cup, he just doesn't think he has any chance to win it and his wife wants him to be more at home with the kids, that's all.

You really can't take any criticism, can you?

Good on Federer for being passionate about DC until 2004. wow

[Hewitt =Legend]

Duong mate, you should have a guide dog on MTF when it comes to posting about Federer.

[duong]

Originally Posted by arm

You really can't take any criticism, can you?

that's really bad to me, am I really like that ?

just because I replied to your argument about Djokovic playing one week after Davis cup ?

or because I disagree with the cliche "Fed doesn't care about Davis cup" ?

I can say plenty of things which are bad about Fed : I don't think he's the Goat, his tennis level is overrated imo, what he said aboiut Wawrinka after the DC loss to the USA was very bad, etc etc

... but sorry as much as I disagree with the "Goat" cliche about Fed, I also disagree with what is purely a cliche imo about him and Davis cup. I don't like clichés, yes, I don't like being a sheep.

Originally Posted by arm

Good on Federer for being passionate about DC until 2004. wow

2004 for Federer is 2010 for Djokovic and 2009 for Nadal : have those guys been examplary in Davis cup since that age ? I think they have not been examplary at all, sorry to tell you but actually in last two years Fed has played Davis cup more than them.

And still I keep on reading about their great attachment to Davis cup or even patriotism or whatever ... and you know the reason, the only real reason : because they have won Davis cup, Fed hasn't. Nieminen and Melzer haven't either. If Fed had won Davis cup once in his young age and hadn't played it afterwards as other great champions have done in the past, there would not be such clichés about Federer and Davis cup ... for exactly the same commitment.

[duong]

Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend

Duong mate, you should have a guide dog on MTF when it comes to posting about Federer.

OK personal insults, telling me I'm useless and so on ... I had not read such comments for a while, it starts again, just because I disagree with your clichés.

Well I prefer that than being a sheep with a guide dog to take me back to the comfortable niche of MTF clichés.

You can attack me personally, I know nothing from you and your arrogance, there's no reason that you know better than me.

I would be more interested by real arguments but well it's MTF

[sco]

Federer has earned the right to do whatever he wants. Enjoy - don't know how much longer it'll last.

[arm]

Look, my point is, there are a lot of delusional fans on MTF. We all know it. You actually sound serious, even smart, and you show up with some arguments and facts, but you're a bit blind about Roger, I must say. It's the way I see it.

As for Nole, I think he is very patriotic, too much for my taste, really, but I don't think he is VERY attached to DC. I still think he cares more about it than Roger.

I don't blame or criticize Roger for not caring about DC. I kind of understand it, really. But of course some people are not going to like it. And if I was Wawa or any other member of the DC team, I would be really angry. The best player of all time, the one who could really help them win the trophy, wont do it. Not that it would make a lot of difference now, but from 2004/5-2010 he could have really carried his country to the title.

[duong]

Originally Posted by arm

As for Nole, I think he is very patriotic, too much for my taste, really, but I don't think he is VERY attached to DC. I still think he cares more about it than Roger..

yes I think Djokovic is clearly more patriotic than Federer, but when you say "he cares more about it than Roger", I add : yes, but for Federer your "present time" is since 2004, and that's what I can't understand about people's comments about Fed in Davis cup that it seems that people have only known him since 2005

unfortunately his main story with Davis cup was before that

Originally Posted by arm

And if I was Wawa or any other member of the DC team, I would be really angry. The best player of all time, the one who could really help them win the trophy, wont do it. Not that it would make a lot of difference now, but from 2004/5-2010 he could have really carried his country to the title.

I agree about Wawa but I don't think Switzerland could have won the trophy for the reasons I exposed before.

I would like Fed to play if not to win, but it seems that his wife doesn't want him to, and obeying one's wife, I know what it is And actually Fed owes a big part of his carreer to Mirka.

[Yolita]

Originally Posted by duong

2004 for Federer is 2010 for Djokovic and 2009 for Nadal : have those guys been examplary in Davis cup since that age ? I think they have not been examplary at all, sorry to tell you but actually in last two years Fed has played Davis cup more than them.

Actually, yes: Djokovic played all the ties in 2011, until he got injured during a Davis Cup match against Delpo, which cost him a couple of months at the end of his fantastic season. He played that match only a couple of days after winning a grand slam trophy in the US... I call that exemplary.

He decided not to play Davis Cup in 2012 because of the Olympics. But in 2013 he's back playing for his country.

Djokovic won the 2013 Australian Open on a Sunday, and, instead of relaxing, or celebrating, or savouring his triumph, the next day, Monday, he flew to Belgium and on Friday he played a Davis Cup match.... Many players were impressed, thinking he would have pulled out after winning the AO. But he didn't.

So, yes, Novak has been commited to Davis Cup for years and he hasn't stopped now that he's the #1 player in the world.

I think Roger has every right to manage his schedule as he sees fit, I'm just mentioning that Novak's commitment to Davis Cup, now that he's at the top of the ATP rankings, is higher than Roger when HE was at the top of the rankings, in 2004. Roger was very commited before, as you say, but as soon as he made the #1, his interest deminished. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Just don't pretend that Novak's interest in Davis Cup took the same dive, because it didn't.

[Han Solo]

Originally Posted by arm

Sure, but people can have an opinion, no? Especially his "team" mates who have to battle it out for a country that is also Roger's

As a Djoko fan, after he won DC in 2010, I really would rather he didnt bother play DC for his own sake. But it makes me.immensely proud when he wins a slam on Sunday and on Monday is flying to the other side of the world to play for his country.

Phone me back when he's doing it the wrong side of thirty, with wife and kids.

[star]

Originally Posted by Han Solo

Phone me back when he's doing it the wrong side of thirty, with wife and kids.

Yeah, because Fed was gung ho for Davis Cup before he was 30 and before he had kids or a wife.

[Han Solo]

Originally Posted by star

Yeah, because Fed was gung ho for Davis Cup before he was 30 and before he had kids or a wife.

Yeah, tell it like it is.

...

Nevertheless, point is it's all very well praising players for their commitment to the sport, or a particular competition within it, but time and the onset of other responsibilities erode that commitment. Same will happen to Djokovic down the line, and all the other great players.

But if you want to continue these facile comparisons of players and their commitment levels, be my guest.

[star]

Originally Posted by duong

And still I keep on reading about their great attachment to Davis cup or even patriotism or whatever ... and you know the reason, the only real reason : because they have won Davis cup, Fed hasn't. Nieminen and Melzer haven't either. If Fed had won Davis cup once in his young age and hadn't played it afterwards as other great champions have done in the past, there would not be such clichés about Federer and Davis cup ... for exactly the same commitment.

I disagree with you here. Sampras won the Davis Cup TWICE and had heavy criticism for his lack of commitment to Davis Cup. Agassi won the Davis Cup TWICE and also suffered criticism for his lack of commitment to Davis Cup.

Boris Becker won Davis Cup almost singlehandedly two years in a row.

I don't care if Federer plays Davis Cup or not. If he wants that hole in his career stats, it's fine with me. I just call B.S. when he talks about how much he cares about it or when his fans try to claim he has been devoted to Davis Cup.

As Yolita pointed out, Federer's interest in DC waned dramatically when he became the number one player. There have been other players who have not had that same drop in interest. And, as I've pointed out winning Davis Cup and then losing interest in it also does not insulate a player against criticism for lacking commitment to Davis Cup.

[leng jai]

Well if you're the best player of all time and made zero effort to win DC for your country during your prime then of course it's going to look bad.

[Orangeball]

Originally Posted by heya

Not enough money? Fed played well and still lost to Benneteau- a doubles specialist in his 30s on hardcourt, and the slow Isner on clay.

So true, go and cry now Fedtards