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Old 02-14-2013, 01:04 AM   #1
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Default ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...996628834.html

If you recall Ellison proposed increasing the prize money by $800,000 for both the men and the women. The ATP rejected the proposal while the WTA accepted the proposal.

Quote:
The ATP board, which consists of Drewett, three player representatives who are in favor of the increase and three tournament representatives who voted against it, is due to reconsider the prize money hike as soon as this week. The Indian Wells tournament begins on March 4.
Apparently the IW organization is playing some hardball with the ATP

Quote:
If the ATP doesn't approve the package, the players are going to take a pay cut—and that goes for the women, too, even though the WTA board approved the increase. Moore [CEO of IW] said the event would offer the minimum prize money required by the ATP, which means this year's winners would earn $724,000, rather than the $1 million Roger Federer and Victoria Azarenka earned for winning last year. Under the unaccepted offer, the winner would still earn $1 million, but every other round would receive an increase.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

Less focus on big tournaments, where players already make enough even in the first round, and more focus on smaller tournaments. It is the ATP Challenger series, no?
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

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Originally Posted by pierricbross View Post
Less focus on big tournaments, where players already make enough even in the first round, and more focus on smaller tournaments. It is the ATP Challenger series, no?
Well, that would be nice too. Maybe we can convince Ellison to buy a couple of them.

Still I think it would be nice for the lower level players to get more money at the master level tournaments. They have to work very hard just to make it to that level.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

Maybe if they re-vote, Drewett will do right by the players as a final act in his tenure. He has bigger problems in his life, anyways.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

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Originally Posted by pierricbross View Post
Less focus on big tournaments, where players already make enough even in the first round, and more focus on smaller tournaments. It is the ATP Challenger series, no?
True, but IW is important due to its large draw size. It's not like Paris M1000 where virtually all entrants are top 50 and doing OK for themselves.

Last edited by n8 : 02-14-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierricbross View Post
Less focus on big tournaments, where players already make enough even in the first round, and more focus on smaller tournaments. It is the ATP Challenger series, no?
Ok. But in IW and Miami the Main draw has 96 conenders. A lot of journeyman play there and only there TMS tournaments
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:27 AM   #7
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
Maybe if they re-vote, Drewett will do right by the players as a final act in his tenure. He has bigger problems in his life, anyways.
I think one of the final acts of his tenure was precisely abstaining from voting.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

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Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
I think one of the final acts of his tenure was precisely abstaining from voting.

what does that even mean? The vote took place in Nov 2012 while the announcement of his illness came in January 2013 (I concede that it's possible he already knew his diagnosis and waited a few months to announce it, but I don't see how you can assert that so cavalierly with any evidence).
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

Ray Moore thinks the problem is that the tournament directors want to maintain control and are afraid of the players having too much power.

Quote:
"It's getting closer to players finally owning up and taking the time to create an organization," said Michael Russell, the veteran pro. "I think it's a long time coming and it needs to be done."
Michael Russell is sort of the epitome of a guy who makes a living off of small tournaments and counts himself lucky to get to the main draw of IW. But it seems these guys don't have any power. The ATP depends on these lower level guys to fill out the draws, but then reuses to let them have more money when someone wants to hand it out. It's shenanigans, and probably a lot of jockeying for position from a lot the tournaments and things that we never really get to hear about.

I don't think Moore's statement is completely forthright, but I think there is a good old boy system.

Quote:
Raymond Moore, the CEO of Indian Wells, said the ATP's position was simply cover for a larger issue. "This is a pawn in the political fight between the players and the tournament directors," he said. "The tournaments are saying, 'Don't give this to the players, the players are becoming too powerful, here comes Indian Wells and they're ruining the whole thing.'"
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

This is just a selfish notion from other tournaments. They are increase lower round prize money and i hope qualifiers as well, it will help lower ranked players in the 75-150 and Indian Wells is a 96 person draw.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:26 AM   #11
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

just give less to winners and the ones who reach late rounds (that is the ATP's minimum) and more to the ones who lose in early rounds, and the economical balance will be easier to find for other tournaments

In previous years, Indian Wells had increased a lot the prize money for winners and the ones who reach late rounds, not for the ones who lost early. It's completely new for them to increase only the early rounds. I even remember Indian Wells director already was in clash last year with the ATP precisely because he wanted only to increase the late rounds :

From http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...our/53538094/1 :

Quote:
When billionaire owner Larry Ellison offered to sweeten the pot for this year's BNP Paribas Open— boosting the singles winner's check to a cool $1 million — it appeared to be prize-money manna from heaven.

But Ellison dangled his dough with strings attached.

The take-it-or-leave-it deal stipulated that his extra $700,000 would go to the final three rounds, from the quarterfinals on (a much smaller portion would go to doubles).

The winner's check would thus jump 64% from $611,000 to $1 million from the previous year. By contrast, first-round losers would pick up $7,709 instead of $7,115, a $594 bump equivalent to 8%.

That put the ATP World Tour in a squeeze. Take Ellison's money, and earlier rounds would be shut out. Turn it down, and deny income to players.

In the end, the tour accepted Ellison's offer. The decision rankled some in the game.
The ATP had a problem with his proposal last year for these big increases only from QF and in the end they accepted. Now he wants to increase the other rounds : it would be fair to accept for lower-ranked players, but it also means that in 2 years, the overall increase is huge ! And that's something which other tournaments can't necessarily offer. They surely wanted to stop Ellison's pressure at some point before he goes too far.

It looks similar to the situation in slams where the owner of the Australian open, which is the financially healthiest slam, gives more and more to the players, and has planned to go further and further in that direction in next years,

and the French Tennis Federation, owner of the French open, which has other constraints, now feels completely strangled financially.

I don't know how Indian Wells is so healthly financially, if it's because of its organization or because its owner is a hugely rich fan who can spread his own money (in a situation similar to what happens in football in Chelsea or Manchester City), but it seems clear that it has more money than other tournaments.

People on MTF may not understand it but tournaments are not necessarily at ease on the money-front and they are unequal. In recent years many challengers and a few ATP Tour Level tournaments have disappeared if that can bring something to your ear : of course the situation looks better in south America and Asia but I'm not sure at all that traditionalist MTFers would like traditional European Masters 1000 tournaments to be transferred to south America and Asia.


I feel players are not economically reasonable and ask too much overall to tournaments, but if they give less to winners who already get so much, and more to players losing in early rounds, the situation would be more balanced with players who have a hard living living better, and the tournaments feeling more at ease financially.
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Last edited by duong : 02-14-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

From the article in the OP, in the new proposal which is presented as a "threat", the winner would have less, but nothing is said about early rounds. As it's presented as a threat, it looks like everybody is decreased, but if it was only the winner and late-rounds who were decreased, I think they would get to what is, imo, the final solution.

Gimelstob says he's confident that they will get to a solution, maybe that's what they are looking for.

I must say I find it quite funny and disgusting reading Moore presenting himself as the players' defender when last year they proposed exactly the inverse increasing only from quarterfinals

Quote:
Moore is a rare case: A sports CEO who wants athletes to have more bargaining power. "I would love to see the players have a union and we do a collective bargaining agreement, like all the other sports," he said.
As if Ellison and Indian Wells board were philanthrops
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

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Old 02-14-2013, 01:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

Quote:
If the ATP doesn't approve the package, the players are going to take a pay cut—and that goes for the women, too, even though the WTA board approved the increase. Moore [CEO of IW] said the event would offer the minimum prize money required by the ATP, which means this year's winners would earn $724,000, rather than the $1 million Roger Federer and Victoria Azarenka earned for winning last year. Under the unaccepted offer, the winner would still earn $1 million, but every other round would receive an increase.
Impressive threat! I like this tactic.

Imagine explaining this situation to someone who doesn't follow tennis: "the tournament is threatening a pay cut unless the tour accepts a pay rise". It's quite a funny situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
From the article in the OP, in the new proposal which is presented as a "threat", the winner would have less, but nothing is said about early rounds. As it's presented as a threat, it looks like everybody is decreased
I interpreted it as saying that every round would get the minimum prize money so yes, early rounds would be cut as well.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: ATP to Reconsider IW pay increase proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arakasi View Post
I interpreted it as saying that every round would get the minimum prize money so yes, early rounds would be cut as well.
yes I had the same impression as you, but it's not fully clear.
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