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View Poll Results: Has Djokovic surpassed Edberg and Becker?

He has surpassed both 84 56.76%
He has surpassed neither 47 31.76%
He has surpassed Becker but not Edberg 13 8.78%
He has surpassed Edberg but not Becker 4 2.70%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-08-2013, 12:39 AM   #361
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Sure... when Sampras was dominating because the courts were well suited to his game, that was fine, when Fed&co dominate because these courts are suitable to their game, then it's devaluation Just because you dislike something doesn't mean it's worth less - it's fine if you want to be a self-proclaimed judge&jury, but it's just a lot of hot air.
Dude, if you're not going to read what I am writing then there is no real point in discussing it.

Sampras played in an era when one surface was highly suited to his game (grass) two less so, and a fourth completely hostile to it (clay). Nowadays all surfaces pretty much suit all players. There are some differences but they are pretty minimal by comparison. Additionally the nature of the modern game (defensive-oriented) discourages upsets. It's a much better situation to be the top player in.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you were the Tour's dominant player for a year in the 80s or 90s, you were a contender for less titles in that period than if you are the Tour's dominant player for a year in the 2010s. That is going to result in the top players accumulating more slams.

I am not sure what is so difficult to understand about that.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:42 AM   #362
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

As for who is better, depends what people value more. Of course Nole Fools will gloat that he is already better without actually taking things into consideration that court conditions are so different to what Becker/Edberg experienced and how this imapcted on their results.

The other side is everything was better in the old days, which isn't true either. Like anything some things evolve for the better and others for the worse. Sure there were actually varied surfaces that required different skills to succeed.

Faster surfaces were too quick at the time. This led to what we have now with homogonised surfaces, which has gone too far the other way. While good for the marketing department and business people for the ATP in increased money, has taken away certain aspects of surface specialisation. Now they play the same game on all surfaces barring the movement side.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:02 AM   #363
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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As for who is better, depends what people value more. Of course Nole Fools will gloat that he is already better without actually taking things into consideration that court conditions are so different to what Becker/Edberg experienced and how this imapcted on their results.

The other side is everything was better in the old days, which isn't true either. Like anything some things evolve for the better and others for the worse. Sure there were actually varied surfaces that required different skills to succeed.

Faster surfaces were too quick at the time. This led to what we have now with homogonised surfaces, which has gone too far the other way. While good for the marketing department and business people for the ATP in increased money, has taken away certain aspects of surface specialisation. Now they play the same game on all surfaces barring the movement side.
irrelevant Nole would kill them.....vastly superior player than both
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:51 AM   #364
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Olderer crashed out against journeymen on grass and clay. It's called equal suckage. If you count crying on hardcourt, Olderer is a triple threat.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:41 PM   #365
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Dude, if you're not going to read what I am writing then there is no real point in discussing it.

Sampras played in an era when one surface was highly suited to his game (grass) two less so, and a fourth completely hostile to it (clay). Nowadays all surfaces pretty much suit all players. There are some differences but they are pretty minimal by comparison. Additionally the nature of the modern game (defensive-oriented) discourages upsets. It's a much better situation to be the top player in.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you were the Tour's dominant player for a year in the 80s or 90s, you were a contender for less titles in that period than if you are the Tour's dominant player for a year in the 2010s. That is going to result in the top players accumulating more slams.

I am not sure what is so difficult to understand about that.
I wouldn't call the differences minimal. If they were minimal, then the GS wins of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic would be much more evenly spread across all four events than they are.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:01 PM   #366
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Dude, if you're not going to read what I am writing then there is no real point in discussing it.

Sampras played in an era when one surface was highly suited to his game (grass) two less so, and a fourth completely hostile to it (clay). Nowadays all surfaces pretty much suit all players. There are some differences but they are pretty minimal by comparison.
Clay in 2013 is not different from clay in 1993. Let me spell it out to you:

Nowadays all (top) players are well adapted to pretty much all surfaces, not the other way around.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:04 PM   #367
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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I wouldn't call the differences minimal. If they were minimal, then the GS wins of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic would be much more evenly spread across all four events than they are.
Only a moron could call the differences minimal.

Edberg and Becker never dominated the tour during a season the way Djokovic did, they are not even close.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:29 PM   #368
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Dude, if you're not going to read what I am writing then there is no real point in discussing it.

Sampras played in an era when one surface was highly suited to his game (grass) two less so, and a fourth completely hostile to it (clay). Nowadays all surfaces pretty much suit all players. There are some differences but they are pretty minimal by comparison. Additionally the nature of the modern game (defensive-oriented) discourages upsets. It's a much better situation to be the top player in.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you were the Tour's dominant player for a year in the 80s or 90s, you were a contender for less titles in that period than if you are the Tour's dominant player for a year in the 2010s. That is going to result in the top players accumulating more slams.

I am not sure what is so difficult to understand about that.
The problem which you fail to see is that you build your whole case on mere three players, one of which would 100% dominate in any era, other would 100% dominate clay in any era and very likely be in a good chance to get a slam or two on other surfaces. You only have some semblance of a case with Djokovic, but even he is currently at his very best on slow and medium fast HC, and not on grass.

If everything suits everyone why Murray doesn't have a single finals on clay, let alone a title? Why Nadal hasn't won a title outside clay in a long time?
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:38 PM   #369
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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If everything suits everyone why Murray doesn't have a single finals on clay, let alone a title? Why Nadal hasn't won a title outside clay in a long time?
2 fair questions forever left unanswered by the homogenization clowns.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:06 AM   #370
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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If everything suits everyone why Murray doesn't have a single finals on clay, let alone a title? Why Nadal hasn't won a title outside clay in a long time?
I didn't say that there is no difference. I said there is minimal difference. It might give one of the top players an edge over the others but it doesn't stop them being contenders.

Nadal might struggle to win off clay but he is still usually a lock for the SFs of Wimbledon. 10 years ago you had Guga ranked #1 and losing in the first round of Wimbledon after winning RG. THAT'S different surfaces.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:56 AM   #371
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

So, for you, its realistic that No.1 player loses in R1 on any tournament? Isn`t he No.1? Its not a different game.
It is MUCH better now. Tennis was boring in S&V era, and required much less skill and atleticism. Most of the old players says so too, but i guess ordinary people know better.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:07 AM   #372
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Way to miss the point, dude.
Soooooo.....

#1 ATP player losing to everyone under the sun = tougher era
#1 WTA player losing to everyone under the sun = I'm missing the point

Please enlighten me.

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what's with you and MIMIC these days?
I think he just now realized that I can't fucking stand Murray.

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Old 02-09-2013, 10:21 AM   #373
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Nadal might struggle to win off clay but he is still usually a lock for the SFs of Wimbledon. 10 years ago you had Guga ranked #1 and losing in the first round of Wimbledon after winning RG. THAT'S different surfaces.
No, THAT's different players. Did Guga win 7 RGs in 8 years? Did he win 16 clay Masters (and counting)? Are you trying to say Nadal is a random clay courter and Fed just a random hard court specialist?
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:56 AM   #374
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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No, THAT's different players. Did Guga win 7 RGs in 8 years? Did he win 16 clay Masters (and counting)? Are you trying to say Nadal is a random clay courter and Fed just a random hard court specialist?
It's representative of an era when surfaces required even the best players to be specialists, either in full or in part. The modern game allows players to play one game on all surfaces and the best players will be very successful on all of them.

To say that the top players have slight preferences for one surface over another is proof that homogenisation is a myth is just silly. It's not just about the top 4 - at every single slam you see the vast majority of seeds playing to their ranking. 10 years ago it just wasn't the case. You'd have low and unseeded players in SFs, top seeds regularly losing in the first few rounds, and so forth.

Modern surfaces are designed to be predictable and put the same players in a position to win every single tournament. Why? Big names bring dollars. It's in the best interests of organisers to make sure that the top players have the chance to win as many tournaments as possible. And the top players benefit from that. Hence their bigger slam counts.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:52 AM   #375
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
It's representative of an era when surfaces required even the best players to be specialists, either in full or in part. The modern game allows players to play one game on all surfaces and the best players will be very successful on all of them.

To say that the top players have slight preferences for one surface over another is proof that homogenisation is a myth is just silly. It's not just about the top 4 - at every single slam you see the vast majority of seeds playing to their ranking. 10 years ago it just wasn't the case. You'd have low and unseeded players in SFs, top seeds regularly losing in the first few rounds, and so forth.

Modern surfaces are designed to be predictable and put the same players in a position to win every single tournament. Why? Big names bring dollars. It's in the best interests of organisers to make sure that the top players have the chance to win as many tournaments as possible. And the top players benefit from that. Hence their bigger slam counts.
stop posting.............stop fucking posting ............just stop dont type anymore you epic useless troll
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