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Old 02-01-2013, 03:11 AM   #121
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
At the AO match Murray was actually out-hitting and overpowering Federer off the ground for long periods of the match. Of course, Andy's offensive ground game has improved immensely, but the Federer of old wouldn't be getting bullied by him, which is a sign of his decline really.
Yup, that match had very different dynamics from the usual in their matches. But still, it highlighted what an 'annoying' opponent Murray is for Federer when the latter is not fully sharp. Murray did really well to attack Fed's second serves and exploit his slow movement (especially to the forehand side) on the day and could even have taken it in 3 sets had he been more clutch.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:21 AM   #122
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

If Monfils wasn't injured it would be Monfils-Simon. That's the worst match-up ever. Not for Simon. And not for Monfils. But for us who dare watching it. The spectators would have some serious 'match-up issues' after every match they play.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:59 AM   #123
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Originally Posted by uxyzapenje View Post
If Monfils wasn't injured it would be Monfils-Simon. That's the worst match-up ever. Not for Simon. And not for Monfils. But for us who dare watching it. The spectators would have some serious 'match-up issues' after every match they play.
If we were talking about matchups where both player bring each other down making for ugly matches, Monfils vs Simon would definitely be among the top ones in such discussion
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:35 AM   #124
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Adding another one because of the Montpellier draw which put these two players in collision course in the QF.

Davydenko vs Berdych

Davydenko leads 9-2, with Berdych's two wins coming on grass (where Davydenko pretty much can't beat anyone) and Dubai 2011 in a really bad period for Davydenko - it was still a close match. I believe the reason for this one is that Tomas give Kolya two things he loves: flat hitting and consistent patterns. Davydenko in his prime probably hit the ball earlier than any other player in history; Berdych's predictable hitting patterns allow Davy to do just that easily and take the initiative in most points, moving Tomas from side to side. Also, Davydenko is like a machine in terms of generating depth with his shots, he leaves very few short balls and Tomas always had problems with guys who can move him around and hit with consistent depth, making it very hard for him to get his best weapons in play. He's usually the one scrambling and under pressure to hit good shots to remain in the rallies despite being the bigger hitter of the two.

Finally, Berdych's serve doesn't have a particularly good disguise and his first serve % is very low, while Davydenko is one of the best returners of the past decade, he usually dismantles Berdych's serve. He can't even seize the initiative on his own serve, that's what makes this such an immensely difficult matchup for Tomas.

With that said, Berdych will probably win at least 50% of the matches they play from now on, considering that he is in the prime of his career and Davydenko only seems to play his best stuff occasionally, but it's a matchup that is on Kolya's hands outside grass of course.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:50 PM   #125
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Adding another one because of the Montpellier draw which put these two players in collision course in the QF.

Davydenko vs Berdych

Davydenko leads 9-2, with Berdych's two wins coming on grass (where Davydenko pretty much can't beat anyone) and Dubai 2011 in a really bad period for Davydenko - it was still a close match. I believe the reason for this one is that Tomas give Kolya two things he loves: flat hitting and consistent patterns. Davydenko in his prime probably hit the ball earlier than any other player in history; Berdych's predictable hitting patterns allow Davy to do just that easily and take the initiative in most points, moving Tomas from side to side. Also, Davydenko is like a machine in terms of generating depth with his shots, he leaves very few short balls and Tomas always had problems with guys who can move him around and hit with consistent depth, making it very hard for him to get his best weapons in play. He's usually the one scrambling and under pressure to hit good shots to remain in the rallies despite being the bigger hitter of the two.

Finally, Berdych's serve doesn't have a particularly good disguise and his first serve % is very low, while Davydenko is one of the best returners of the past decade, he usually dismantles Berdych's serve. He can't even seize the initiative on his own serve, that's what makes this such an immensely difficult matchup for Tomas.

With that said, Berdych will probably win at least 50% of the matches they play from now on, considering that he is in the prime of his career and Davydenko only seems to play his best stuff occasionally, but it's a matchup that is on Kolya's hands outside grass of course.
what about canas vs federer? Fed at his peak in 2007 lost 1-3 vs Canas. hes similair to simon?
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:00 PM   #126
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Djokovic-Berdych is clearly one of the best : 12-1 !
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:47 PM   #127
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
what about canas vs federer? Fed at his peak in 2007 lost 1-3 vs Canas. hes similair to simon?
Yup, they are kind of similar in a way. Just like Simon, Canas frustrated a less than fully sharp Federer with his defense and smart play, making him beat himself.

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Djokovic-Berdych is clearly one of the best : 12-1 !
This one-sided H2H can be explained as much by a mental block as by technical aspects. Berdych can actually win sets very often and even take the first set many times, but he invariably comes up short when chances arise. Of course there are matchup issues as well: Djokovic makes mincemeat of Berdych's second serve and gets a pretty good off the first serve as well, and he is capable of redirecting his bullets and yoyo Tomas around the court a bit like Davydenko does. Maintaining good depth of shot is key to disrupting Tomas's game as he loves to pounce on short balls with his FH while he struggles to keep in rallies when he keeps getting deep, angled balls from the other side. He also can't seem to do anything on Nole's serve, even if Novak is far from a big server.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:52 PM   #128
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Nadal - Monaco. I was going to vote for Monfils-Simon, but this is even worse because apart from bad styles mix here we have no faith in one player to beat another. And yep, I know that Monaco once beated Nadal when Rafa retired, but spaniard was barely moving then - irrelevant. Argentinean has absolutely nothing to hurt Nadal, he struggles to win games and almost points.

In Monfils-Simon matches you have at least some drama.
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:57 PM   #129
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Nadal - Monaco. I was going to vote for Monfils-Simon, but this is even worse because apart from bad styles mix here we have no faith in one player to beat another. And yep, I know that Monaco once beated Nadal when Rafa retired, but spaniard was barely moving then - irrelevant. Argentinean has absolutely nothing to hurt Nadal, he struggles to win games and almost points.

In Monfils-Simon matches you have at least some drama.
Monfils vs Simon is always very tight, it definitely doesn't fit here at all.

I get your point about Nadal vs Monaco, but remember how Monaco did in his last Slam match vs Federer? Got 3 games. Miami semi vs Nole? 95% of his matches against top players? It's not that he has a specific matchup problem with Nadal, he's just generally not a threat to any top player, although yes against Nadal he usually doesn't even try such is his lack of belief/submissiveness.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:05 PM   #130
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Monfils vs Simon is always very tight, it definitely doesn't fit here at all.

I get your point about Nadal vs Monaco, but remember how Monaco did in his last Slam match vs Federer? Got 3 games. Miami semi vs Nole? 95% of his matches against top players? It's not that he has a specific matchup problem with Nadal, he's just generally not a threat to any top player, although yes against Nadal he usually doesn't even try such is his lack of belief/submissiveness.
Well, in Rome he was leading set and break this year against Djokovic and I can imagine him take a set off Roger if Fed starts making errors left and right. He has positive H2H record with Ferrer if I`m not mistaken and he beated Andy at least once in tight match. But with Nadal... Sincerely, even after 8 months of being out of tennis if these two will play in the final this Sunday I will be shocked in case Monaco taking more than 3 games in any set.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:05 PM   #131
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Monaco vs Nadal is partly match-up but also partly the fact he's so in awe of him he just rolls over like a girl. Nieminen, Ferrer, Simon, Benneteau, even Boredo, are all players with limited weaponry who have given Nadal either defeats or tight contests so I don't see why Monaco couldn't.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:31 PM   #132
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Well, in Rome he was leading set and break this year against Djokovic and I can imagine him take a set off Roger if Fed starts making errors left and right. He has positive H2H record with Ferrer if I`m not mistaken and he beated Andy at least once in tight match. But with Nadal... Sincerely, even after 8 months of being out of tennis if these two will play in the final this Sunday I will be shocked in case Monaco taking more than 3 games in any set.
He's generally useless against the top players though, even Tsonga on clay owns him. I'm not surprised his only decent records are against Ferrer and Murray, they're the only two players in the top 8 who won't ever really blow you off the court but rather outgrind/outmanoeuver you - Monaco is more comfortable with that. Against the rest of the elite pack, his short weak balls are mercilessly punished by big forehands/backhands. I suspect that now that Murray has added some more firepower to his game he'll have much less trouble disposing of Monaco. I remember in his USO match against Federer he kept trying to attack but all he did was set perfect platforms for Roger to unleash his forehand.

I do agree that it's worse than normal against Nadal. Don't think it's matchup related though, but mental. Monaco never seems to believe he can beat Nadal; against the rest, he also loses but at least fights much harder, against Nadal he seems beaten from the very first point. The fact that they practice together often means Nadal knows his game inside out, there's basically nothing Monaco can do to surprise him or throw him off guard.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:33 PM   #133
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Ferrer vs any decent player
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:11 PM   #134
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Monaco vs Nadal is partly match-up but also partly the fact he's so in awe of him he just rolls over like a girl. Nieminen, Ferrer, Simon, Benneteau, even Boredo, are all players with limited weaponry who have given Nadal either defeats or tight contests so I don't see why Monaco couldn't.
Even Devvarman kept it closer when he played Nadal

Speaking of Nadal, his matchup with Dolgopolov is a good example here. For starters, Dolgo is far too erratic for perhaps the steadiest baseliner in tennis history who will give no points away. As if that were not enough, Dolgo slices far too much: there's basically no more suicidal tactic in tennis than slicing to Nadal's forehand (even Federer has fully abandoned that tactic), Nadal accelerating those balls with his forehand. Results: 6-4, 6-3, 6-1, 6-2, 6-3, 6-2.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:22 AM   #135
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Time to bump this again with one of the biggest mismatches between top 20 players: Del Potro vs Haas

Haas has never even forced a tiebreak in 4 matches. The problem he has is the same as players like Nishikori and Tipsarevic (who never took a set off Delpo either) do, it's that he's not comfortable at all defending and Del Potro loves nothing more than facing offensive baseliners with poor defense. His ability to generate consistent power and depth especially off the forehand from any position on the court pretty much means that anyone without the ability to soak up and redirect that sort of power is a good matchup for him. Del Potro vs Haas exchanges usually follow the same pattern, with Haas trying to hit through Del Potro but the Argentine getting the upperhand in irreversible fashion as long as he gets a full swing on the FH, leading to a short ball or a shank from Haas. Haas also has a lot of problems reading the Del Potro serve, which only increases his problems in this matchup.

Since we're on Haas here, Haas vs Nadal is another obvious case, actually Haas can still give a good match to anyone in the top 8 bar Nadal and Del Potro.

Haas never took a set and it's easy to see why. He can't hit through Nadal at all and Rafa systematically breaks down his BH with his topspin FH. I suppose this matchup could look more competitive if they played on grass when it's still fast though.

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