[Abel]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

Maybe those advantages should be discussed, shouldn't they?

Sure. What about them would you like to discuss? Or do you mean in a public forum/to a wider audience?

[rocketassist]

As far as I'm concerned, Spain's whole attitude to doping is disgraceful. Those names and those blood bags should be given to WADA to have a look at. Are the Spanish authorities afraid a few sporting heroes' reputations might take a hit or two?

A Spanish court gave EPO cheat Roberto Heras his Vuelta title back the other week. Sums up their attitude.

[Fishnet]

Originally Posted by Abel

Sure. What about them would you like to discuss? Or do you mean in a public forum/to a wider audience?

To a wider audience, of course.

Do regular fans know how different the tour is for Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Murray compared to a Berlocq kind of guy?

[lalaland]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

Do you believe using million-dollar recovery techniques that aren't illegal but are unfair equals to cheating?

Just bcos sth is unfair doesn't make it cheating, is it?
Some players fly private jet from continents to continents, they can sleep in bed, eat healthy meals and rest quietly when flying in an efficient flight. Others can only afford economy seat, maybe sitting next to crying baby the whole time, unable to sleep, and can't stretch his legs for a long flight with stopovers. Does it make it fair just because low rank player has no resources bcos he is poor? Plus he has no coach or physios, all bcos he is not rich. That's professional sports, it is not an equal playing ground no matter how you see it. But it doesn't really make it unfair, bcos it is up to the players to decide on whether he wants to participate even if he has not enough resources to compete with the wealthy player.

(Just to be clear, my statement is straightly regard to the quote of "unfair = cheating". I'm not either approve or condemn using the machine).

[Fishnet]

Originally Posted by lalaland

Just bcos sth is unfair doesn't make it cheating, is it?
Some players fly private jet from continents to continents, they can sleep in bed, eat healthy meals and rest quietly when flying in an efficient flight. Others can only afford economy seat, maybe sitting next to crying baby the whole time, unable to sleep, and can't stretch his legs for a long flight with stopovers. Does it make it fair just because low rank player has no resources bcos he is poor? Plus he has no coach or physios, all bcos he is not rich. That's professional sports, it is not an equal playing ground no matter how you see it. But it doesn't really make it unfair, bcos it is up to the players to decide on whether he wants to participate even if he has not enough resources to compete with the wealthy player.

(Just to be clear, my statement is straightly regard to the quote of "unfair = cheating". I'm not either approve or condemn using the machine).

I think unfairness to this degree is the same, when talking about sportsmanship, as cheating. It's just not illegal, but it gives them an unfair advantage.

[ssin]

there are surely thousands of talented kids around the world who can't even afford a racket and will never become regular tennis players... that's not a tennis issue at all, that's how this world looks like...

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

So you basically believe tennis should be a free-for-all where rich players can get away with unfair treatments and care?

Interesting.

That's completely against sportsmanship.

It's pro-tennis, dunno what's your problem here. A player who can afford a private jet will be far more rested than a player who had to sleep on the airport because his cheap economy flight got delayed. If that is a problem, he's welcome to try a desk job for 500$/month.

[Fishnet]

Originally Posted by ssin

there are surely thousands of talented kids around the world who can't even afford a racket and will never become regular tennis players... that's not a tennis issue at all, that's how this world looks like...

Still, considering the ATP is the association that represents all players, something could be done.

[Fishnet]

Originally Posted by Time Violation

It's pro-tennis, dunno what's your problem here. A player who can afford a private jet will be far more rested than a player who had to sleep on the airport because his cheap economy flight got delayed. If that is a problem, he's welcome to try a desk job for 500$/month.

So top players get even better conditions to keep dominating other players.

I guess you don't care at all about depth.

[lalaland]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

Still, considering the ATP is the association that represents all players, something could be done.

Yes, ATP should order those who fly private jet to carry some journeymen on their flight free. Or should they ban private jet

Ok, I'm joking. This is not about private jet, it's about unfair playing field you mentioned, which to you seem to be occurring bcos some players has more privileges than the others. However, it's a given that some players always do have more privileges than others and that didn't make it a cheating offense. If you want the machine ban, you shouldn't argue that it is unfair that some player got to use it and other don't. Not sure what you should be arguing but it's not this, and unfair still don't equal cheating.

[Fishnet]

Originally Posted by lalaland

Yes, ATP should order those who fly private jet to carry some journeymen on their flight free. Or should they ban private jet

They should ban million-dollar "treatments".

[ssin]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

Still, considering the ATP is the association that represents all players, something could be done.

this discussion is legitimate and appropriate, I can say that.

But it is known they are really all on their own out there, their world is as brutal and competitive as it gets

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

So top players get even better conditions to keep dominating other players.

I guess you don't care at all about depth.

Except Gulbis and maybe few others, not many players very originally filthy rich. Fed comes from normal family afaik, Djokovic is from one the poorest countries in Europe and so on. Whatever money they made, they did it fair and square, so if they want a private jet, they can get a private jet. After all, having money doesn't guarantee you anything. If you want tennis back where it was 100 years ago, it's not going to happen

[August]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

Do you believe using million-dollar recovery techniques that aren't illegal but are unfair equals to cheating?

I think those expensive tratments are a similar moral issue as doping. Unlike doping, they aren't a health risk. But they favour the ones who have much money and, like doping, they make the sport more about fitness and less about your playing skills.

But there's a big problem when it comes to controlling the use of the egg. You can't control it like the use of doping. So it wouldn't make sense to ban the egg when you coudln't follow if somebody uses it.

[lalaland]

Originally Posted by Fishnet

They should ban million-dollar "treatments".

Private jet is multi-million. Flying in it will allowing you a lot more refreshing when arriving at a new continent, much more so than flying Econ, for sure.