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Old 01-25-2013, 10:23 PM   #46
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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Originally Posted by Brit Tennis Fan View Post
Yeah, the SF against Djokovic last year was a really, really important match in Andy's career. It was the first time* that he really produced against a top player in a Grand Slam match. If any doubts had crept in that he wasn't quite good enough this match dispelled them.

* before anyone points out that he twice beat Nadal in the latter stages of a Slam, those matches were no where near this in terms of quality and didn't require him t dig deep like this one did.
USO 08 semi was the best aggressive tennis he's ever played still IMO- but you gotta remember he was new to the occasion, carefree and the pressure from the UK media/public to win a slam had not yet been bestowed upon him.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:32 PM   #47
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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Surely you'd admit he'd helped him mentally compared to his first 3 slam finals where he brought the lube especially the third one- I thought he'd get routined by Djoker at last year's AO semi but the closeness of the match (one he could have won) was a huge turnaround. Without Lendl, he'd have probably been routined in both Olympic and USO finals.
So are we saying he simply helped him a bit or he's the best coaching acquisition of all time?
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:41 PM   #48
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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USO 08 semi was the best aggressive tennis he's ever played still IMO- but you gotta remember he was new to the occasion, carefree and the pressure from the UK media/public to win a slam had not yet been bestowed upon him.
Yeah he played well in that match but 2008 Nadal on hard court was not as good as 2012 Djokovic on hard court.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:02 PM   #49
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

Lendl isn't even a coach. More like an adviser. Mugray's biggest problem has always been Nadull, it's no coincidence his slam success began the minute Nadull was out of the game. Obviously the decline of Fed and Djokovic from 2011 level helped as well.

When I think of great coaches I think of Magnus Norman, Uncle Tony, Tony Roche, Paul Annacone, Brad Gilbert. Anyone who knows anything about coaching knows it takes months to years of work for a coaching relationship to really pay dividends, Lendl haven't been together nearly long enough or worked together enough for their to be any kind of real change. Look at Annacone, who took a couple of years with Roger to really pay dividends, and Roger is the most naturally gifted player ever.

I understand Mugraytards want to say he's improved rather than the field getting worse, and they want to have a reason, but it's just not true. Anyone who watched last nights mugfest could see Mugray's 2nd serve has not improved at all and his mental toughness is even worse.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:25 PM   #50
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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So are we saying he simply helped him a bit or he's the best coaching acquisition of all time?
Helped him for sure.

Magnus Norman is a great shout- turned Soderling from 25-32 seeds to a slam contender.

The best ever coach is impossible to define- probably someone who got so so much out of so little- without wanting to turn it into a Nadal hate thread Uncle Toni's results are pretty impressive given how Nadal's game transcends off clay.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:30 PM   #51
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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Helped him for sure.

Magnus Norman is a great shout- turned Soderling from 25-32 seeds to a slam contender.

The best ever coach is impossible to define- probably someone who got so so much out of so little- without wanting to turn it into a Nadal hate thread Uncle Toni's results are pretty impressive given how Nadal's game transcends off clay.
Well the thread title suggests he could be and the answer is no. The coaching looks better than it is because of the parallels in their career timelines.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:48 PM   #52
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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Originally Posted by SliceAce View Post
Lendl isn't even a coach. More like an adviser. Mugray's biggest problem has always been Nadull, it's no coincidence his slam success began the minute Nadull was out of the game. Obviously the decline of Fed and Djokovic from 2011 level helped as well.

When I think of great coaches I think of Magnus Norman, Uncle Tony, Tony Roche, Paul Annacone, Brad Gilbert. Anyone who knows anything about coaching knows it takes months to years of work for a coaching relationship to really pay dividends, Lendl haven't been together nearly long enough or worked together enough for their to be any kind of real change. Look at Annacone, who took a couple of years with Roger to really pay dividends, and Roger is the most naturally gifted player ever.

I understand Mugraytards want to say he's improved rather than the field getting worse, and they want to have a reason, but it's just not true. Anyone who watched last nights mugfest could see Mugray's 2nd serve has not improved at all and his mental toughness is even worse.

I'd say if Nadal was around atm he'd be getting beat by Murray the same way everyone else is. Nadal could never dominate or destroy Murray on a HC the way Fed and Novak could anyway.

Saying Murray has not improved is a ridiculous comment. Have you seen his FH lately, the variation on his 1st serve, the accuracy and offensiveness of his ROS?
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:06 AM   #53
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

I think Ivan helped in the sense that Andy finally found someone who related to him, someone who knew how it felt like to come up short time after time in a GS final. No one else in his camp, no matter how good they were, had that experience that Andy can truly believe in, but that changed when Lendl came, and he probably shared some of his insecurities with Lendl that he did not with anyone else.

But I think the Olympics were more important. The thing about grand slams is you can get lulled into the sense of "it's alright, the next slam in not far away, I can try again and again", and before you know it so much time has passed and you still haven't gotten one. But the Olympics were different; it was literally now or never. The next Olympics is four years away, and Olympics in London? He may not even get that in the rest of his lifetime. It was a "now or never" moment for him, and that probably perked up his sense of urgency, and everything that he had learnt, and the new additions to his camp e.g. Lendl, probably came together in the most acute way possible in that one single week. And when he won it, I suspect he learnt that sense of urgency was needed in every GS, that he needed to play every GS like it was his last chance.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:19 AM   #54
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

I sometimes fantasize about Lendl coaching the champ as well, but we really know very little about his ability to coach. Wayne Gretzky, the greatest and most prolific hockey player of all time became a coach after he retired but had zero positive affect on the lowly Coyotes. As soon as he left, the team started to improve and made the playoffs - LOL. The idea of Lendl and Djokovic together is a bit like the Emperor and his Sith apprentice (star wars), and makes for very cool imagery, but I think Djoker actually needs someone like the soft and jovial Marian to counter-balance the dark self destructive tendencies which afflicted him earlier in his career. The stoic Tod Martin nearly derailed the champ and Nole-Nation will not tolerate those kinds of misadventures AGAIN !
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found? is there nothing?  

Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal certainly win Roger?

Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)

Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

argument.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:56 AM   #55
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

Mr. Oracle wtf are you on about
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:08 AM   #56
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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I sometimes fantasize about Lendl coaching the champ as well, but we really know very little about his ability to coach. Wayne Gretzky, the greatest and most prolific hockey player of all time became a coach after he retired but had zero positive affect on the lowly Coyotes. As soon as he left, the team started to improve and made the playoffs - LOL. The idea of Lendl and Djokovic together is a bit like the Emperor and his Sith apprentice (star wars), and makes for very cool imagery, but I think Djoker actually needs someone like the soft and jovial Marian to counter-balance the dark self destructive tendencies which afflicted him earlier in his career. The stoic Tod Martin nearly derailed the champ and Nole-Nation will not tolerate those kinds of misadventures AGAIN !
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:14 AM   #57
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

I don't see any improvements in Mugray's game after Lendl...still a pusher who can't hit a proper FH down the line. The only thing that has changed is immense amount of luck Mugray has experienced since he came on board. (i.e Exhausted Noserer in Olympics, Wind in USO final, cakewalk draw in AO...)
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:47 AM   #58
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
I sometimes fantasize about Lendl coaching the champ as well, but we really know very little about his ability to coach. Wayne Gretzky, the greatest and most prolific hockey player of all time became a coach after he retired but had zero positive affect on the lowly Coyotes. As soon as he left, the team started to improve and made the playoffs - LOL. The idea of Lendl and Djokovic together is a bit like the Emperor and his Sith apprentice (star wars), and makes for very cool imagery, but I think Djoker actually needs someone like the soft and jovial Marian to counter-balance the dark self destructive tendencies which afflicted him earlier in his career. The stoic Tod Martin nearly derailed the champ and Nole-Nation will not tolerate those kinds of misadventures AGAIN !
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:59 AM   #59
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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Mr. Oracle wtf are you on about
Oh I don't know, all style and no substance as usual. And probably bad style.
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found? is there nothing?  

Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal certainly win Roger?

Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)

Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

argument.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:18 AM   #60
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Default Re: Ivan Lendl the best coaching hire of all time?

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I'd say if Nadal was around atm he'd be getting beat by Murray the same way everyone else is. Nadal could never dominate or destroy Murray on a HC the way Fed and Novak could anyway.

Saying Murray has not improved is a ridiculous comment. Have you seen his FH lately, the variation on his 1st serve, the accuracy and offensiveness of his ROS?
He beat him 3-1 at the USO for pity's sake.
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