[Aloimeh]

Originally Posted by Getta

if you're really interested in "going Greek", here's Kathimerini. it's a center-right newspaper, yet the best Greek newspaper.

yes, i'm a leftist, but not left-wing biased.

Strange to say, other than b92 and Pecat (which I read to scandalize myself and bemoan what's going on in Serbia) I really only read English source media, by which I mean the BBC, Guardian, NYT (to see what the mainstream lies are) and then I read sites like Antiwar, Grayfalcon, Eastern European Forum, Chronicles, etc. to get a more realistic picture. I tried Russia Today but just couldn't get hooked, they're still a little amateur.

I'm not surprised you're a leftist. What's your thinking on Papandreou's moves?

[Machiavelli]

Wow,What a thread...

Entertainment ''de luxe''

[EKSTREMISTA]

Originally Posted by merryploughbhoy

This is a subject I want to investigate... Have any Croatian's or Serbs seen the documentary 'the weight of chains' and if so is it a fair and balanced view on the conflict.

Lets just quote some of the foreign viewers(Croats included)

July 19, 2011 11:38 PM
the saucer people said...

Weight Of Chains is one of the best ever documentaries I have seen on how and why the destruction of the sovereign country of Yugoslavia happened. The "demonisation" of the Serbian people is one of the worst outrages of recent years and this documentary in some small way goes to readdress the balance and explains clearly and concisely how NATO and the IMF and the EU militarily and economically devastated the Balkan region.
I live in the UK and my only connection to the people of the former Yugoslavia is the love of their films so I have no bias either way but I know and injustice when I see one and the Serbian people are as much the victims as any one else.
It is interesting how the blueprint for the Balkan wars is now being used by the power elite in Libya. The same large-scale indiscriminate NATO bombings of civilians, the same alignment of military special operations personnel, western intelligence operatives and extremist Islamic groups (KLA in the Balkans and now Al Qaeda-Libyan Islamic Pary) as well as the assassinations and propaganda/media demonisation.

The raw truth revealed, smashing the lies the West propagated, and a message of reconciliation that Yugoslavia tragically forgot., 6 February 2011
gokimokig from Canada

Finally a fresh look at a complex situation., 2 July 2011
david griffin (david@utopiated.net) from UK Midlands
Apart from a 5 part BBC series - nothing has tackled this issue in the depth it demands till now apart from this Documentary. Ignore the handful of reviewers who claim it's "Serb propaganda" - that's just idiotic - in fact this is one of the best produced and written documentaries I've seen on contemporary geopolitical monkey-business to date! The interview snatches are all from erudite commentators, the chronology is unravelled in a comprehensive manner and footage they've amassed really adds a human quality to things. The footage of elderly Serb and Croat neighbours being forced to pack-up and leave after living together without and issue is heart-wrenching (and definitely not staged before someone suggests this).

Excellent Exposition, 24 May 2011
hrvoje4
Though not 100% an objective documentary, it comes pretty darn close.
Despite its socialist leanings (think the very informative, but leftist-socialist biased Global Research) AND the slightly heavier pro-Serb leanings, it is a very good film. This coming from a Croat.

WHY you must see this one despite some radical views by other reviewers , a real MUST !, 4 September 2011
gonzofaratro from Switzerland
Ignore the radical reviewers, there is a lot of solid information here, so solid that Croats and Bosnians "wasted" 2 hours of their life to watch this films and try to convince you not to see it.

An informative and heavily researched insight into a story of Western colonisation, war and the power of propaganda., 21 September 2011
Author: Aussie Viewer

Author: Volim Dobar Film from Croatia
This is a Serbian documentary but anybody who watches it from the area of former Yugoslavia will learn that everything is not black and white and it never is.

A revelation of the hidden truths of the downtrodden., 21 October 2011
mgak1

[Caesar1844]

Bump.

Found this thread because of a side discussion in General Messages. One of the Serbian posters couldn't understand why Croatian and Bosnian posters wouldn't support Djokovic. Obviously it was pointed out that it's because of the war and stuff like Srebrenica etc. meaning that most Balkan nations still are very hostile to Serbia.

Then (this was the bit that surprised me) one of the Serbian posters said that Srebrenica was "no big deal" and that UN/US figures saying that Serbs committed 90-95% of all atrocities during the war are "lies".

I was just wondering whether this is a common opinion amongst Serbians? If so it would explain why guys like Ratko Mladic still get treated like heroes. I presume that most Serbian posters here are pretty young - what do your parents tell you about the war? Do you think that genocide / ethnic cleansing is no big deal?

[nick the greek]

Originally Posted by Caesar1844

Bump.

Found this thread because of a side discussion in General Messages. One of the Serbian posters couldn't understand why Croatian and Bosnian posters wouldn't support Djokovic. Obviously it was pointed out that it's because of the war and stuff like Srebrenica etc. meaning that most Balkan nations still are very hostile to Serbia.

Then (this was the bit that surprised me) one of the Serbian posters said that Srebrenica was "no big deal" and that UN/US figures saying that Serbs committed 90-95% of all atrocities during the war are "lies".

I was just wondering whether this is a common opinion amongst Serbians? If so it would explain why guys like Ratko Mladic still get treated like heroes. I presume that most Serbian posters here are pretty young - what do your parents tell you about the war? Do you think that genocide / ethnic cleansing is no big deal?

Where are you from?Obviously, you know nothing what was going on in former Yugoslavia and about history of that region.So, you better educate yourself before expressing stupid views.

[Caesar1844]

Originally Posted by nick the greek

Where are you from?Obviously, you know nothing what was going on in former Yugoslavia and about history of that region.So, you better educate yourself before expressing stupid views.

I'm not expressing any views. I'm just asking Serbians what their views are.

Your defensiveness is rather telling.

[ssin]

Originally Posted by Caesar1844

I'm just asking Serbians what their views are.

asking Serbians, you will get different answers. Serbians are not one many-headed dragon, but a group of individuals sharing the same space, language and not many other things.

Serbian parliament adopted a resolution apologizing for the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, caught and delivered Mladic, Karadzic, Milosevic, not one of them was left here, so that's the official stance.

Serbian politics from 1990s was the main generator of war and atrocities, it is accepted as a fact. There are many Serbs though who believe the Serbs should not be collectively designated as the only group to be blamed. It's some kind of defensive attitude, it is not easy to live with the huge burden left by evil and incompetent leaders such as Milosvic who was a dictator by all accounts, although he allowed some more or less irregular and unfair elections during his time.

Your question, if it is in good faith, that is, if you are not an evil troll, deserves much more space, time and discussion than this sports forum can provide, I am afraid.

edit: and btw, I have Bosnian and Croat friends and many of them, not all of them of course, support Djokovic. I travel to Bosnia and Croatia several times a year, for business, weddings etc. And believe it or not, there are tons of Serbians who can't stand Djokovic or just don't care about tennis at all.

[Caesar1844]

Originally Posted by ssin

asking Serbians, you will get different answers. Serbians are not one many-headed dragon, but a group of individuals sharing the same space, language and not many other things.

Understood.

Originally Posted by ssin

Serbian parliament adopted a resolution apologizing for the 1995 Srebrenica massacre, caught and delivered Mladic, Karadzic, Milosevic, not one of them was left here, so that's the official stance.

Well, yeah, that's the official stance. But let's be honest, it's not like they went out of their way to catch Mladic and Karadzic. The guys were living in Belgrade for over a decade. I guess as someone who doesn't live in Serbia, I'm a bit curious about what the actual stance is within the country (hence my questions). Do Mladic and Karadzic have a lot of support? Or not really?

Originally Posted by ssin

Serbian politics from 1990s was the main generator of war and atrocities, it is accepted as a fact. There are many Serbs though who believe the Serbs should not be collectively designated as the only group to be blamed. It's some kind of defensive attitude, it is not easy to live with the huge burden left by evil and incompetent leaders such as Milosvic who was a dictator by all accounts, although he allowed some more or less irregular and unfair elections during his time.

Fair comments.

As for whether I am trolling, the reason I bumped this thread is more about me wanting to know more than trying to blame people. I have to admit that some comments from Serbs about the war and some of the leaders had shocked me and I wanted to see if they were a common view, and if so, why.

[buddyholly]

Originally Posted by nick the greek

Where are you from?Obviously, you know nothing what was going on in former Yugoslavia and about history of that region.So, you better educate yourself before expressing stupid views.

The guy asks for information and you tell him to get some information before expressing stupid views.
The only stupid views I see are yours.

[ssin]

Originally Posted by Caesar1844

Understood.

Do Mladic and Karadzic have a lot of support? Or not really?

Not really, during their arrests almost no one protested in Serbia but a handful of members of far right organizations. This was the best time to show support and it didn't happen.

The support has been vocal and often used by football and other hooligans to annoy others. if a kid want to annoy someone on internet this is the best and easiest way, just say something about supporting Mladic etc.

in these times of economic crisis most people are just trying to make the ends meet.

Of course what happened was quite recent and it is still a source of frustrations for both Serbians and their neighbors.

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by Caesar1844

Well, yeah, that's the official stance. But let's be honest, it's not like they went out of their way to catch Mladic and Karadzic. The guys were living in Belgrade for over a decade. I guess as someone who doesn't live in Serbia, I'm a bit curious about what the actual stance is within the country (hence my questions). Do Mladic and Karadzic have a lot of support? Or not really?

My best guess is they have a fair number of arm-chair supporters. A lot of people for example will say they are heroes, yet when they were arrested, nobody could care less The thing is, people have too much on their mind making ends meet day in day out, the question of "heroes" is very low on their list of priorities, if it's there at all.

[Mr. Oracle]

Originally Posted by Caesar1844

Understood.


Well, yeah, that's the official stance. But let's be honest, it's not like they went out of their way to catch Mladic and Karadzic. The guys were living in Belgrade for over a decade. I guess as someone who doesn't live in Serbia, I'm a bit curious about what the actual stance is within the country (hence my questions). Do Mladic and Karadzic have a lot of support? Or not really?


Fair comments.

As for whether I am trolling, the reason I bumped this thread is more about me wanting to know more than trying to blame people. I have to admit that some comments from Serbs about the war and some of the leaders had shocked me and I wanted to see if they were a common view, and if so, why.

Hey Caesar, better to fight for your own home and lands than be a greedy imperialist pig and go overseas to fight wars for oil and wealth. That said, many believe that Milosevic (at least get the spelling right), was more of an opportunist than a patriot. You know the political kind that changes positions very easily? Sound familiar? Can't help but think this thread is a great way to troll serbs, to thin their ranks here a bit. Call me paranoid. Personally, I would never give you a straight answer on who we view as heroes or demons because you cannot understand. If you're really interested though, do some research and learn about history, reading various sources. Don't ask these questions on a tennis forum. How "ridiculously" naive.

[Dextertje]

Originally Posted by ssin

The support has been vocal and often used by football and other hooligans to annoy others.

Indeed...

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle

Don't ask these questions on a tennis forum. How "ridiculously" naive.

Don't be a snob

[nick the greek]

Originally Posted by Caesar1844

Bump.

Found this thread because of a side discussion in General Messages. One of the Serbian posters couldn't understand why Croatian and Bosnian posters wouldn't support Djokovic. Obviously it was pointed out that it's because of the war and stuff like Srebrenica etc. meaning that most Balkan nations still are very hostile to Serbia.

Then (this was the bit that surprised me) one of the Serbian posters said that Srebrenica was "no big deal" and that UN/US figures saying that Serbs committed 90-95% of all atrocities during the war are "lies".

I was just wondering whether this is a common opinion amongst Serbians? If so it would explain why guys like Ratko Mladic still get treated like heroes. I presume that most Serbian posters here are pretty young - what do your parents tell you about the war? Do you think that genocide / ethnic cleansing is no big deal?

Originally Posted by buddyholly

The guy asks for information and you tell him to get some information before expressing stupid views.
The only stupid views I see are yours.

Obviously, you either can't read, you're blind or not very smart.
He did expressed views(in bold) and he heard them from anti Serb western media.Why didn't he ask himself do young Bosnian/Croat poster think genocide/ethnic cleansing is no big deal?Does he know about Naser Orlic and what he did to Serbs before Srebrenica or has he heard about Oluja(classic case of ethnic cleansing done by Croats)?Does he know about death camp for Serbs,Jews and Gipsies called Jasenovac from WWII held by NDH(Independent State of Croatia) a fascist state who was Hitler's alllies?
Like I said, be informed(from the right sources)educate yourself and than express views.