[GugaF1]

Man, this whole facade will come down sooner or later. I just wish people stop putting attention on individuals and realize is probably the norm in most high profile sports. And stop judging morally only the athletes, yes they bare responsibility, but is obviously the whole system: General public ( who doesn't care, doesn't care to educate themselves and wants to believe in fairy tales of heroes and villains) The sport's authorities ( who turn a blind eye and don't want to taint their products) and players themselves.

I think it would be helpful also if people didn't antagonized PEDs so much because it mostly obscures the issue, let's learn about them in a scientific way. I mean these drugs are acquired and used by a bunch of nobodies in the local gym just to look good on the beach or with sleeveless shirts. To think that athletes who live out of their bodies won't be taking advantage of something that any smug can use. This whole issue needs to be re-evaluated and stooped being judged by superficial fairy tale terms. Otherwise we will keep getting the charade.

[star]

Originally Posted by MaxPower

was mostly spanish high profile athletes.

Nadal, Iniesta (barca player), Paul Gasol (basketball), Alonso (F1) and probably some others I forgot. Not hanging them out or anything. maybe they were just clueless.

Even after Contador got a 2 year:




Also funny that Contador himself supported Armstrong before he himself got exposed.

Nadal supported Gasquet too.

Nadal has said many times that he always believes in the athlete. There were people who believed Floyd Landis too and gave him money. They weren't professional athletes

Your "we can identify drug users if they support anyone else who has used drugs" is just another way of accusing with no evidence.

I don't know anything about who does or doesn't use performance enhancing drugs in tennis. For all I know Federer, Murray, Djokovic, and Nadal could all be using performance enhancing drugs.

But your way of doing things is about as legitimate as my saying, "Well, you know EPO was still legal in Switzerland long after it was made illegal in other countries." And then saying, "I'm not trying to hang Federer or anything,"

[Nole fan]

Originally Posted by Fujee

also "solidarity"

What's so funny about that genius?

[Fujee]

Originally Posted by Nole fan

What's so funny about that genius?

Its all just innocent camaraderie of course, not trying to cover their own backs no never

[August]

Originally Posted by Har-Tru

You think Spanish players have the monopoly on doping in football... everybody can dope as much as they want in football. You have to be very stupid to get caught, and even if you do get caught nobody minds and you get off (Guardiola anyone?).

The biggest money in football is in national leagues/UCL, not in international matches. So, if Spain has a doping problem, I'd suspect all La Liga players dopers, not only Spaniards. On the other hand, Spain must be the national team with most La Liga players.

[star]

Originally Posted by Fujee

Its all just innocent camaraderie of course, not trying to cover their own backs no never

For sure the cyclists are in the business of covering for one another, but also the clean cyclists don't tell what they know about the dirty ones either. Trying to sort it out that way is just trying to have "evidence" where there is none.

[Mr. Oracle]

I always felt disgust when Fedtards tried to diminish Nadal's success by saying he was doping, and now the new target is the world #1. I have my own thoughts about censorship though. I agree strongly that idiotic accusations regarding doping deserves a 30-day timeout to think about one's stupidity. If Fed was winning all the slams no one would be saying anything.

Everything else though should be fair game: whether Fed won most of his slams in the weak era, or whether Nole's success is due to surface homogenization etc. Those types of debates allow us to dissect and compare the game over the decades. Accusing someone of murder, theft, bestiality, or doping, without proof, is a capital cyber offence though.

My biggest beef is how people can repeat the same shit over and over. If you're going to be a clown, at least be an original clown and make MTF a little more bearable. I would add to heya's request that the timid be banned, ban the dulltards too.

[alypen]

Originally Posted by Rrrainer

The Spanish government has been accused of suppressing evidence linking footballers and tennis stars to a notorious doctor who will go on trial in Madrid next week and has been described as a “one-man Wal-Mart” of doping...

Note that it doesn't say "Spanish tennis stars" (or footballers, for that matter).

[PeteCentral]

The only clean player is Bye.

[Chase Visa]

I feel that, given the Armstrong scandal, the cover-up of the Agassi meth stuff and the lack of doping controls in tennis, it is naive to believe that doping doesn't exist. Now we won't know who dopes unless an Armstrong-esque scandal breaks, and I'm not in a position to say who does anyway, but the game is too physical to ignore doping entirely.

[Fujee]

Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle

I always felt disgust when Fedtards tried to diminish Nadal's success by saying he was doping, and now the new target is the world #1. I have my own thoughts about censorship though. I agree strongly that idiotic accusations regarding doping deserves a 30-day timeout to think about one's stupidity. If Fed was winning all the slams no one would be saying anything.

Everything else though should be fair game: whether Fed won most of his slams in the weak era, or whether Nole's success is due to surface homogenization etc. Those types of debates allow us to dissect and compare the game over the decades. Accusing someone of murder, theft, bestiality, or doping, without proof, is a capital cyber offence though.

My biggest beef is how people can repeat the same shit over and over. If you're going to be a clown, at least be an original clown and make MTF a little more bearable. I would add to heya's request that the timid be banned, ban the dulltards too.

As was said earlier, the relaxed doping controls leaves no one exempt from speculation.

To reiterate however, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with speculating with strange occurances/articles as evidence. Its completely totalitarian to ban someone for speculating. Accusations without evidence are of course foolish.

[gulzhan]

Originally Posted by Fujee

To reiterate however, in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with speculating with strange occurances/articles as evidence.

Yea, no problems with speculation. The only problem I have is that fedtards for some reason belive they have monopoly on speculations. I have my speculations too. I believe Federer is miraculously strong and sharp in key moments like in Wimbledon final. The only difference is I keep my speculations to myself. You, fedtards, however, believe you can gather together and attack a tennis player. Not because he has more reasons to be suspected of doping but because he beat your idol in almost every GS meeting they had. And now, with Nadal gone, you start the same with Novak?!

[abraxas21]

Originally Posted by Nole fan

I think Spain has far more pressing matters than that.

we are aware that the spanish economy is in ruins and desperate for loans from the EU but that doesn't mean they should refrain from investigating their doped sportsmen "heroes"

[abraxas21]

Originally Posted by Nole fan

I don't find anything wrong in supporting someone who has no evidence against. Athletes will just support other athletes for no obscure reasons other than solidarity.

[Caesar1844]

Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle

I always felt disgust when Fedtards tried to diminish Nadal's success by saying he was doping, and now the new target is the world #1. I have my own thoughts about censorship though. I agree strongly that idiotic accusations regarding doping deserves a 30-day timeout to think about one's stupidity. If Fed was winning all the slams no one would be saying anything.

Everything else though should be fair game: whether Fed won most of his slams in the weak era, or whether Nole's success is due to surface homogenization etc. Those types of debates allow us to dissect and compare the game over the decades. Accusing someone of murder, theft, bestiality, or doping, without proof, is a capital cyber offence though.

My biggest beef is how people can repeat the same shit over and over. If you're going to be a clown, at least be an original clown and make MTF a little more bearable. I would add to heya's request that the timid be banned, ban the dulltards too.

You can raise suspicion about pretty much any player in relation to doping. e.g.

"Federer is very old by tennis standards but he still has great stamina and never gets injured, that's suspicious."
"Nadal's game is very heavily based on his physique and he is always taking long 'injury' breaks, that's suspicious."
"Djokovic's game and stamina improved massively when he suddenly went gluten-free, that's suspicious."

And so on. Maybe some players are 'more' suspicious than others but the point is that anyone can be slurred by someone who wants to. A better regime would stop (or at least reduce) that suspicion.