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Old 01-22-2013, 07:48 PM   #241
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Novak merely repeated what everybody else round the world is saying, it's not like he made some revelation there If you weren't infatuated with your American hero, you'd think the same.
Oh the stupid American agruement again? I haven't heard that one since...OH YEA wait, like two pages ago.

Novak merely opened his mouth and starting talking about something he has no idea about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickmartins View Post
obvious troll is obvious.
Who's trolling who?

Armstrong is maybe one of the best athletes the world has ever known, Novak is a punk. I mean, I don't think posting that makes me a troll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janko05 View Post
I can see you've beefed your argument creating skills up to that point where you lose all contacts with reality.
In your own reality you created a whole new world of lies and twisted facts.
You can dwell in it for as long as you wish, I don't mind.
Care to name any specifics or are you working on your fictional short story skills?

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Livestrong gave up funding cancer research in 2005, they're very open about it. It was a PR front by Nike and Armstrong, very cleverly done. Made him a ton of money - for example, look at livestrong.com. It's a commercial operation, which pays Armstrong (.org is the supposed cancer foundation).

A nice example is that Livestrong was paying lobbyists in Washington, trying to get USADA to lay off Armstrong. Why would a cancer foundation do that?
Do you also believe 9/11 was a hoax along with the recent shooting in Newtown CT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
You were not stating your opinion. You said djokvoic did no charity, no foundation to help people. The FACT is he has a charitable foundation helping young people of which he even received Centrepoint Award in London last year. These are FACTS, not opinion or perspective.

Obvious, FACTS are not something you can deal with.

And in your hero worship of Armstrong, you are so blinded that you even not recognised his charitable foundation, which is so holy in your opinion that you do not even know said foundation no longer contribute to any cancer research for many years.

And I have wasted enough time here, not just you but this thread.

What do any of those facts have to do with my argument that doping exists in tennis, Novak is a punk and Lance is the greatest? Just curious.

I can name a bunch of unrelated facts too...

FACT : It's impossible to hum while plugging your nose.
FACT : Four is the only number that has the same amount of letters as its actual value
FACT: Those stars and colours you see when you rub your eyes are called phosphenes.

I guess we can all see who won this argument now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
The article Fumus posted provides as an argument to support the idea that "Armstrong is the greatest cyclist who ever lived" the following:

1) "In a sport where so many of the good ones were doping, Armstrong was competing on a field that was more or less level. No one was in his category."

2) "There has never been a cyclist of his talent, stamina, perseverance."

That's it, pretty much. Somehow, Litotes arguments seem more compelling.

(Incidentally, the journalist who wrote the piece is neither a specialist in cycling nor any other sports.)
Yes it was great read wasn't it? I'm glad it's not just us stupid Americans who believe he was the greatest ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Jesus Christ... get a clue.
Here's a clue, post less watch tennis more.
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Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:29 PM   #242
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
Oh the stupid American agruement again? I haven't heard that one since...OH YEA wait, like two pages ago.

Novak merely opened his mouth and starting talking about something he has no idea about.



Who's trolling who?

Armstrong is maybe one of the best athletes the world has ever known, Novak is a punk. I mean, I don't think posting that makes me a troll.



Care to name any specifics or are you working on your fictional short story skills?



Do you also believe 9/11 was a hoax along with the recent shooting in Newtown CT?



What do any of those facts have to do with my argument that doping exists in tennis, Novak is a punk and Lance is the greatest? Just curious.

I can name a bunch of unrelated facts too...

FACT : It's impossible to hum while plugging your nose.
FACT : Four is the only number that has the same amount of letters as its actual value
FACT: Those stars and colours you see when you rub your eyes are called phosphenes.

I guess we can all see who won this argument now.




Yes it was great read wasn't it? I'm glad it's not just us stupid Americans who believe he was the greatest ever.



Here's a clue, post less watch tennis more.
even worse, it makes you an idiot.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:31 PM   #243
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
Armstrong is maybe one of the best athletes the world has ever known.
Prior to working with doctor Ferrari, Armstrong raced the Tour four times and managed to finish only once (just inside the top 50).
Cleanish (he wasn't blood doping yet before his cancer, buth did all the steroids, epo, hgh and testosterone) he was an average cyclist.


Quote:
Do you also believe 9/11 was a hoax along with the recent shooting in Newtown CT?
Are you really unaware of how Armstrong scammed the cancer community by creating a separate, for-profit company using the Livestrong name and logo??

Here's some reading material:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/sp...anted=all&_r=0

Quote:
What do any of those facts have to do with my argument that doping exists in tennis, Novak is a punk and Lance is the greatest? Just curious.

I can name a bunch of unrelated facts too...

FACT : It's impossible to hum while plugging your nose.
FACT : Four is the only number that has the same amount of letters as its actual value
FACT: Those stars and colours you see when you rub your eyes are called phosphenes.

I guess we can all see who won this argument now.
Whatever argument you were trying to make, you lost when you didn't use the word liar when you called Lance the greatest.


Quote:
Yes it was great read wasn't it? I'm glad it's not just us stupid Americans who believe he was the greatest ever.
Shame, all that time waste reading about Binda, Coppi, Bartali, Merckx, Anquetil, de Vlaeminck, Hinault.
All that time watching the Giro, Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Omloop het Volk...

I could have just gotten all my cycling knowledge from the Toronto Sun like you.

Quote:
Here's a clue, post less watch tennis more.
And a clue to you, stick to what you know.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:38 PM   #244
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Rainbow View Post
Prior to working with doctor Ferrari, Armstrong raced the Tour four times and managed to finish only once (just inside the top 50).
Cleanish (he wasn't blood doping yet before his cancer, buth did all the steroids, epo, hgh and testosterone) he was an average cyclist.




Are you really unaware of how Armstrong scammed the cancer community by creating a separate, for-profit company using the Livestrong name and logo??

Here's some reading material:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/sp...anted=all&_r=0



Whatever argument you were trying to make, you lost when you didn't use the word liar when you called Lance the greatest.




Shame, all that time waste reading about Binda, Coppi, Bartali, Merckx, Anquetil, de Vlaeminck, Hinault.
All that time watching the Giro, Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Omloop het Volk...

I could have just gotten all my cycling knowledge from the Toronto Sun like you.



And a clue to you, stick to what you know.
Touche
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:45 PM   #245
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
HUH? Misery? How about all the cancer research, millions raised for charity, hope he's given those with deadly disease? How about all the lives he's saved?

You trolls here really need to beef up your skills in creating a decent argument.

Armstrong isn't evil and the only ones he's made miserable are the ones who attacked him for doing what everyone else in the sport was doing at the time.

Go back to trollin' the GM.



He can send his regards...I'll send him the record books and ask who has the most TDF wins. Lance is the greatest ever.



Djokovic is a HYPOCRITE.

Lance is a HERO.

Can anyone really argue that statement?

1 guy has raised millions for cancer research through his charity and spear headed an effort to promote a healthy lifestyle.

Another guy is just a pompous ass running his mouth and doesn't even have a charity to speak of...even though he's made millions. He's talking about how people should suffer for cheating...meanwhile he's faked injuries a million times to try to gain an upper hand in matches, gosh if that's not cheating I don't know what is.

Lance hero.

Novak Hypocrite.



American's are bees knees dude... also we're the richest, most highly developed country in the world. Um, but yea we blindly believe the media and are slaves to the television. We totally suck and are dumb...

Just like how you don't watch tennis or understand the game. You clearly didn't watch Lance, the tour or much cycling. I don't know what that has to do with the media or Americans but I'll just smile and nod the next time you post.



WTF!? I mean it seriously, I suppose your post was suppose to be meant as incompetent. Most Tour De France wins ever...yea, but he wasn't the best cyclist in the history of the sport. Hmm...I also think that Andre Agassi was the greatest tennis player ever based on my opinion I mean using an empirical measurement like number of weeks at number 1, slam wins, titles etc. That's just stupid, I'll pickout who I like and just say they are the best ever.

Nice post. LOL.



LOL. Yea, do you believe in Santa Claus too?
Armstrong is now a ZERO Tour de France winner and rightly removed from the cycling record books. He is cyclings answer to Ben Johnston. Many believed in the man and now realise he was a false idol whose achievements were fueled by drugs.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:56 PM   #246
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

@Purple Rainbow
Since you seem to know alot about cycling, wasn't it proven that the performance gains during the past 2 decades cannot be explained by equipment evolution and better training and nourishment, alone?

If the field was completely clean, would the top guys be the same, or are there actually very good cyclists not doping in a field of dopers (if there is any way to know)?

Personally I don't mind doping in cycling as long as all the ones that matter are doing it, since it allows for more spectacle in the mountain stages.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:03 PM   #247
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift36188 View Post
Since you seem to know alot about cycling, wasn't it proven that the performance gains during the past 2 decades cannot be explained by equipment evolution and better training and nourishment, alone?

If the field was completely clean, would the top guys be the same, or are there actually very good cyclists not doping in a field of dopers (if there is any way to know)?

Personally I don't mind doping in cycling as long as all the ones that matter are doing it, since it allows for more spectacle in the mountain stages.
There are health risks from drug taking and sets a very bad example for amateur cycling and society in general.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:04 PM   #248
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
Oh the stupid American agruement again? I haven't heard that one since...OH YEA wait, like two pages ago.

Novak merely opened his mouth and starting talking about something he has no idea about.



Who's trolling who?

Armstrong is maybe one of the best athletes the world has ever known, Novak is a punk. I mean, I don't think posting that makes me a troll.



Care to name any specifics or are you working on your fictional short story skills?



Do you also believe 9/11 was a hoax along with the recent shooting in Newtown CT?



What do any of those facts have to do with my argument that doping exists in tennis, Novak is a punk and Lance is the greatest? Just curious.

I can name a bunch of unrelated facts too...

FACT : It's impossible to hum while plugging your nose.
FACT : Four is the only number that has the same amount of letters as its actual value
FACT: Those stars and colours you see when you rub your eyes are called phosphenes.

I guess we can all see who won this argument now.




Yes it was great read wasn't it? I'm glad it's not just us stupid Americans who believe he was the greatest ever.



Here's a clue, post less watch tennis more.
Love the comedy.
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The current greatness league of active players in order of achievements to date (a factual comparison rather than fan biased assessment):

Federer 17 GS, 6 Year End Masters, 21 Master Series.
Nadal 14 GS, 0 Year End Masters, 27 Master Series, 1 Olympic Gold.
Djokovic 6 GS, 3 Year End Masters, 19 Master Series.


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Old 01-22-2013, 09:05 PM   #249
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post


Armstrong is maybe one of the best athletes the world has ever known, Novak is a punk. I mean, I don't think posting that makes me a troll.



LOL

Novak will be an all-time great by the time he retires. He is only 25.

Armstrong doped and Djokovic didn't. Small difference .
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:16 PM   #250
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Guys, leave us alone with Armstrong.

Right now there are PRO and CONTRA, Fans and haters, because hearts are still involved...

But in a couple of decades, no more hearts but just minds involved, his name will be barely in any digests and future generations will just know him as THE CHEATER.

BTW, I'm not candid and I know there is a huge flock of cheaters, not only in other sports but also in studying, buisiness, politics and many aspects of real life.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:21 PM   #251
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift36188 View Post
Since you seem to know alot about cycling, wasn't it proven that the performance gains during the past 2 decades cannot be explained by equipment evolution and better training and nourishment, alone?
I don't know if you there is any scientific research on the subject, but the introduction of EPO was a game changer in cycling (and undoubtetly in all endurance sports).
The introduction of blood doping added to that and prevented fatigue which used to be usual in the latter stages of a grand tour.

Quote:
If the field was completely clean, would the top guys be the same, or are there actually very good cyclists not doping in a field of dopers (if there is any way to know)?
No, EPO heavily distorted the field. You might have heard of good and bad responers to doping.
I'll have to go a little scientific here, but essentially what EPO does is it increases the hematocrit value of the blood, which is the percentage of red blood cells. Since red blood cells are essential in the oxygen uptake of the body, which is crucial in endurance sports.
So what blood vector doping does, it gives a larger performance boost to athletes with a low hematocrit value. Athletes with naturally high levels of hematocrit (in a more innocent time, we might have called them innocent) have very little to gain by blood vector doping.

So, no. It's a common misconception that "since everone was doing it", the playing field was level. If anything, it heavily tilted the playing field in favor of strong responders to blood vector doping.


Quote:
Personally I don't mind doping in cycling as long as all the ones that matter are doing it, since it allows for more spectacle in the mountain stages.
You're looking at it the wrong way around. It's not those that matter that are doing it, rather you only know the cyclist who dope heavily, because those who race clean finish in the pack (or never got a chance to become pro).
And that's not really fair, is it?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:24 PM   #252
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

But if everybody is doing it, it's not cheating. On the other hand Nole uses the Egg which isn't something readily available to the other players.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:28 PM   #253
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by redshift36188 View Post
But if everybody is doing it, it's not cheating. On the other hand Nole uses the Egg which isn't something readily available to the other players.
Not everybody doped. A common misconception and a stab in the back to those who raced clean and have already been robbed of income and a shot at finding out how good they could have been.

Why do you ask my opinion if you're not interested in it, or unwilling to comprehend it?
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:29 PM   #254
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Purple Rainbow View Post
Not everybody doped. A common misconception and a stab in the back to those who raced clean and have already been robbed of income and a shot at finding out how good they could have been.

Why do you ask my opinion if you're not interested in it, or unwilling to comprehend it?
I wrote that before your reply, I was replying to the post above yours.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:30 PM   #255
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Rainbow View Post
Not everybody doped. A common misconception and a stab in the back to those who raced clean and have already been robbed of income and a shot at finding out how good they could have been.

Why do you ask my opinion if you're not interested in it, or unwilling to comprehend it?
And everyone isnt doping on the same level either. Those that have the most money can buy the best doctors/drugs.
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