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View Poll Results: Vote for speeding up the courts or against it!

Speed up the courts 298 80.54%
Leave them as they are 72 19.46%
Voters: 370. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-20-2013, 06:20 PM   #1111
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

I remember Novak DJokovic in early days , when he was so frustrated with Nadal's outstanding defense . He hit shot after shot which should be winner against any other player but not against Nadal. Nadal was even able to broke him with his passing shots so many times on his ground strokes especially on clay. Djokovic was seen than as a ultimate aggressive attacker .

And did Djokovic cried? Did he asked for surfaces to get faster so he can pass trough Nadal with his shots ?

Did he cried as Uncle Toni for Rafa Nadal "you should put more clay tournaments"?

No . He trained stronger, he worked harder to become better player than he was. Nadal and Federer made him what he is today.

And as they make him better player, Djokovic will with his game , make someone else - better.

Thats evolution of tennis.

Somebody like it - somebody not - but thats they way it is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
Outstanding play on that bp. Djokovic was ahead in that point at the start.

If Berdych can't keep a double break lead I'm done with tennis.
Djokovic took set 6-4 against Berdych.

Quote:
“Does Djokovic resemble myself?” Agassi said. “No, he is even better. He defends really well, while I struggled more in that element of the game. Novak looks totally relaxed when defending, completely calm and the quality of his return is incredible. He is also extremely flexible in his game, which is facilitated by his ability to anticipate his rival’s moves. That is why I think he is a much more versatile player than I was and he is also much more athletic.”
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:22 PM   #1112
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cveks View Post
I remember Novak DJokovic in early days , when he was so frustrated with Nadal's outstanding defense . He hit shot after shot which should be winner against any other player but not against Nadal. Nadal even broke him with his passing shots so many times. Djokovic was seen than as a ultimate aggressive attacker .

And did Djokovic cried? Did he asked for surfaces to get faster so he can pass trough Nadal with his shots ?

Did he cried as Uncle Toni for Rafa Nadal "you should put more clay tournaments"?

No . He trained stronger, he worked harder to become better player than he was. Nadal and Federer made him what he is today.

And as they make him better player, Djokovic will with his game , make someone else - better.

Thats evolution of tennis.

Somebody like it - somebody not - but thats they way it is.
Some sensible posters about today
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th.

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Old 01-20-2013, 06:27 PM   #1113
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

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Originally Posted by SheepleBuster View Post
I disagree. The only reason this was a 5 setters was because the courts are faster.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:32 PM   #1114
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

In his early days Djokovic was one dimensional ballbasher . Than he saw that with this kind of game he cant win against the best and that he needs to improve his defense as well. And he did.

Thats why some people are crying here.

They want faster courts not because they dont like this kind of tennis.

They want faster courts because they think - that will make their favorites better and their opponents worse.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
Outstanding play on that bp. Djokovic was ahead in that point at the start.

If Berdych can't keep a double break lead I'm done with tennis.
Djokovic took set 6-4 against Berdych.

Quote:
“Does Djokovic resemble myself?” Agassi said. “No, he is even better. He defends really well, while I struggled more in that element of the game. Novak looks totally relaxed when defending, completely calm and the quality of his return is incredible. He is also extremely flexible in his game, which is facilitated by his ability to anticipate his rival’s moves. That is why I think he is a much more versatile player than I was and he is also much more athletic.”
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:33 PM   #1115
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cveks View Post


I think that best surface for Djokovic is fast

Agree, that's why he has so much Cincinnati titles.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:37 PM   #1116
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

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Originally Posted by dazed1 View Post
Agree, that's why he has so much Cincinnati titles.
I dont think Cincinati is fastest hardcourt. By my opinion its Paris.

Only reason why Djokovic never won Cinci , is bad schedule .

Toronto and Cincinati have same court speed .

But its exhausting to play Olympics , than Toronto, than Cincinati without rest and to win them all. Especially the latest.

If they re-schedule Cincinati one week later so that we have week of rest between Toronto and Cincinati Djokovic should have like at least 2 titles on Cincinati by now.

Thats why Federer skipped Toronto. He dont want to be beaten hard on either Toronto or Cinci because he knows he dont have enough juice in his tank to play them both on highest level.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
Outstanding play on that bp. Djokovic was ahead in that point at the start.

If Berdych can't keep a double break lead I'm done with tennis.
Djokovic took set 6-4 against Berdych.

Quote:
“Does Djokovic resemble myself?” Agassi said. “No, he is even better. He defends really well, while I struggled more in that element of the game. Novak looks totally relaxed when defending, completely calm and the quality of his return is incredible. He is also extremely flexible in his game, which is facilitated by his ability to anticipate his rival’s moves. That is why I think he is a much more versatile player than I was and he is also much more athletic.”
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:38 PM   #1117
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cveks View Post
In his early days Djokovic was one dimensional ballbasher . Than he saw that with this kind of game he cant win against the best and that he needs to improve his defense as well. And he did.

Thats why some people are crying here.

They want faster courts not because they dont like this kind of tennis.

They want faster courts because they think - that will make their favorites better and their opponents worse.
Yep. I remember that only a few years back Djokovic was just another Chardy with a better backhand. He had to work so hard to become the player that he is today. And we should all view him as a martyr for that.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:41 PM   #1118
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

let's be honest it's true.

my favorite player of all time, any era, any generation, is Rafael Nadal, who the slowest of the courts has benefited more than anyone but it is somewhat gross to watch a player hit 5 insane shots in a rally to no avail

beyond even Djokovic, look at Nadal, Ferrer, Murray, Federer- all of the top guys are incredible movers. besides Federer are any of them more talented or better hitters than the likes of Wawrinka, Tsonga, Soderling, etc? not really

obviously some courts are going to be slow, clay is a whole entire section of the season that is very slow, but to make the majority of hard court tournaments play very slowly is ludicrous. what happens is those who work very hard on technique and actually are naturals at the beauty of the sport will lose over and over and over to athletes just based on agility and speed. I hear time and time and time again how Novak Djokovic has the best blah blah shots but the reality it's not so much that any of his shots are particularly incredible, as much as the nature of him always being able to get to balls with plenty of time

posters here are obviously right, it's not a coincidence that defenders are all atop the ATP rankings. once again, besides Federer.

while I love a good battle as much as the next person, there becomes a point where you would expect SOME big tournaments to play fast and be tennis competitions rather than Olympic run-athons. tennis is, after all, more about how you hit the ball than speed, or at least I think it should be. obviously we are presented with a problem when a player can hit the ball much worse than his opponent yet still win a match just due to how slo-mo everything has become

I loved the Wawrinka-Djokovic match. it was great. but you're watching it and it obviously hits your mind at some point, "how am I watching a match where one guy is dictating play the whole time with aggressive and wonderfully placed shots yet still only tied up in the match?" not to take away from Djokovic, but it is appalling that a player like Wawrinka has played the majority of his careers on ridiculously slow courts, and that if the ATP were not retarded and actually allowed some tournaments to remain at a decent speed, the likes of him would have chances to be successful based on talent rather than purely athleticism.

Wawrinka and Djokovic are both great tennis players but at their cores you have to think that Stan is possibly more talented yet with way way less success? why? inconsistancy? yeah. choking at times? yeah. mentality/focus? sure. but also then you have to realize and take into account the fact that a player who is more of a pure ballstriker and less of a hedgehog running around will fail in this slow paced world of tennis surfaces. it is a bit unfair. for gods sake are we going to have to create an indoor Grand Slam just for the sake of being fair? better yet speed up Australia or the US OPen, or prefarably both. I love watching Nadal play, but something is seriously wrong when you watch those highlights from last years Australian Open of Nadal winning points even when Berdych hits what, 4,5,6 winning shots. it's ludicrous
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:41 PM   #1119
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed1 View Post
Agree, that's why he has so much Cincinnati titles.
Not having titles in one tournament doesn't mean that can't be a good surface/your best And everyone in the big 4 has a Masters they haven't won yet. Anyway I would say Djokovic's best surface is hardcourts in general, the speed isn't really a huge factor.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #1120
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
let's be honest it's true.

my favorite player of all time, any era, any generation, is Rafael Nadal, who the slowest of the courts has benefited more than anyone but it is somewhat gross to watch a player hit 5 insane shots in a rally to no avail

beyond even Djokovic, look at Nadal, Ferrer, Murray, Federer- all of the top guys are incredible movers. besides Federer are any of them more talented or better hitters than the likes of Wawrinka, Tsonga, Soderling, etc? not really

obviously some courts are going to be slow, clay is a whole entire section of the season that is very slow, but to make the majority of hard court tournaments play very slowly is ludicrous. what happens is those who work very hard on technique and actually are naturals at the beauty of the sport will lose over and over and over to athletes just based on agility and speed. I hear time and time and time again how Novak Djokovic has the best blah blah shots but the reality it's not so much that any of his shots are particularly incredible, as much as the nature of him always being able to get to balls with plenty of time

posters here are obviously right, it's not a coincidence that defenders are all atop the ATP rankings. once again, besides Federer.

while I love a good battle as much as the next person, there becomes a point where you would expect SOME big tournaments to play fast and be tennis competitions rather than Olympic run-athons. tennis is, after all, more about how you hit the ball than speed, or at least I think it should be. obviously we are presented with a problem when a player can hit the ball much worse than his opponent yet still win a match just due to how slo-mo everything has become

I loved the Wawrinka-Djokovic match. it was great. but you're watching it and it obviously hits your mind at some point, "how am I watching a match where one guy is dictating play the whole time with aggressive and wonderfully placed shots yet still only tied up in the match?" not to take away from Djokovic, but it is appalling that a player like Wawrinka has played the majority of his careers on ridiculously slow courts, and that if the ATP were not retarded and actually allowed some tournaments to remain at a decent speed, the likes of him would have chances to be successful based on talent rather than purely athleticism.

Wawrinka and Djokovic are both great tennis players but at their cores you have to think that Stan is possibly more talented yet with way way less success? why? inconsistancy? yeah. choking at times? yeah. mentality/focus? sure. but also then you have to realize and take into account the fact that a player who is more of a pure ballstriker and less of a hedgehog running around will fail in this slow paced world of tennis surfaces. it is a bit unfair. for gods sake are we going to have to create an indoor Grand Slam just for the sake of being fair? better yet speed up Australia or the US OPen, or prefarably both. I love watching Nadal play, but something is seriously wrong when you watch those highlights from last years Australian Open of Nadal winning points even when Berdych hits what, 4,5,6 winning shots. it's ludicrous

You are frustrated because you wanted Wawrinka to win in your heart.

In same way I am frustrated when Djokovic plays against Murray .

He simply cant hit winner trough him because Murray is with Nadal best defender on tour and all matches between them are grinding fest with Murray trying same tactics as Wawa today and thats is "try to defend from the first few shots , slice and get ball back slowly than attack".

But thats way it is .

For me Wawrinka was defending better today in most of the match than Novak.

Especially in first set . Thats why Djokovic lost it so badly.

Wawrinka was able to play outstanding defense on Novak shots, than to use his offense to hit winners .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
Outstanding play on that bp. Djokovic was ahead in that point at the start.

If Berdych can't keep a double break lead I'm done with tennis.
Djokovic took set 6-4 against Berdych.

Quote:
“Does Djokovic resemble myself?” Agassi said. “No, he is even better. He defends really well, while I struggled more in that element of the game. Novak looks totally relaxed when defending, completely calm and the quality of his return is incredible. He is also extremely flexible in his game, which is facilitated by his ability to anticipate his rival’s moves. That is why I think he is a much more versatile player than I was and he is also much more athletic.”
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:52 PM   #1121
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cveks View Post
You are frustrated because you wanted Wawrinka to win in your heart.

In same way I am frustrated when Djokovic plays against Murray .

He simply cant hit winner trough him because Murray is with Nadal best defender on tour and all matches between them are grinding fest with Murray trying same tactics as Wawa today and thats is "try to defend from the first few shots , slice and get ball back slowly than attack".

But thats way it is .

For me Wawrinka was defending better today in most of the match than Novak.

Especially in first set . Thats why Djokovic lost it so badly.

Wawrinka was able to play outstanding defense on Novak shots, than to use his offense to hit winners .
im sorry to say but yopu seriously did not watch the match with ur eyes open
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:04 PM   #1122
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RajFederer View Post
im sorry to say but yopu seriously did not watch the match with ur eyes open
so you think that Wawrinka breadsticked and broke Djokovic 2 times simply with his offense ?

Than you didnt look match with eyes open.

Wawrinka was defending so good on Djokovic serves . He was able to defend himself against all Djokovic attacks on his serve , than to position himself better in court, start to attack him , and hit winners .

You cant breadstick Djokovic in set without great defense.

When someone is serving to you, you must first defend yourself in at least 4-5 rallies , only after that you can attack , with exception when your opponent sends to you weak 2nd serve which rarely happens.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah View Post
Outstanding play on that bp. Djokovic was ahead in that point at the start.

If Berdych can't keep a double break lead I'm done with tennis.
Djokovic took set 6-4 against Berdych.

Quote:
“Does Djokovic resemble myself?” Agassi said. “No, he is even better. He defends really well, while I struggled more in that element of the game. Novak looks totally relaxed when defending, completely calm and the quality of his return is incredible. He is also extremely flexible in his game, which is facilitated by his ability to anticipate his rival’s moves. That is why I think he is a much more versatile player than I was and he is also much more athletic.”
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:49 PM   #1123
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

when you are paying hundreds of dollars for a ticket

do you want to see this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLF2a9bzz0

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNoNP...&feature=share
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:52 PM   #1124
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piksi View Post
when you are paying hundreds of dollars for a ticket

do you want to see this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbLF2a9bzz0

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNoNP...&feature=share


Yeah, because faster courts will make every single match on the ATP a serve fest. Their are still serve fests whenever the serve bots face eachother even on these slow courts.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:57 PM   #1125
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Default Re: Grinding wins agains, speed up the courts or the sport will die.

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Originally Posted by cveks View Post
They want faster courts not because they dont like this kind of tennis.

They want faster courts because they think - that will make their favorites better and their opponents worse.
Ppl want faster courts because there used to be faster courts.
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