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Old 01-20-2013, 09:35 AM   #181
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
You know, I don't think so. From the players' perspectives, they get 10ish tests a year in competition, and have to give location data 365 days a year. That would be a major pain in the ass to comply with.


The problem of course is that the dopers have easy ways to avoid the tests. As Armstrong said last night, they have no fear of in-competition testing because they know they've flushed everything out of their system.

Armstrong also said blood passports work against doping (tennis doesn't use them), as does out of competition testing (tennis does such a microscopic number there's zero chance of catching anyone).


Is there doping in tennis? With basically no anti-doping system to speak of? Of course there is. Fuentes worked with hundreds of world class athletes, and said in 2006 that 20% of his clients were tennis players - he said that if he talked, Spain would lose the World Cup, and strangely enough the Spanish authorities buried the list of his clients



It's the dilemma of any governing body:

1) test properly, you will catch lots, and the sport's image will get ruined.

2) give up on testing, the dopers will take over.


Cycling chose number 1 - they do mammoth numbers of tests. Tennis chose 2.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:49 AM   #182
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Oh ye of little faith...

If cyclists were able to do it, crossing the extremely closely watched French borders, getting BBs into Australia is easy as.
Not really. It's much easier to hide anything crossing land borders. Australian airport security is tight.

Not worth the risk.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:56 AM   #183
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Federer and Serena comment on the matter (don't know if somebody posted it already):

Fed: 'It makes me very sad that someone has done this for such a long time and in doing so, has done so much damage to their sport.'

Serena: 'As an athlete who has worked so hard ever since three or four years old, I have to say that this is a very sad day for all athletes. It may be even more sad for anyone who was harmed in the process. If that big a sports person would do this, I understand people will question what's it like in sports other than cycling.'
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:58 AM   #184
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by zcess81 View Post
Basically, until we have a concrete proof (such as Armstrong in cycling), it is extremely cynical to assume that the same is true in tennis at the very top of the game.
Lance Armstrong was never tested positive despite hundreds of tests.

No east german swimmer was tested positive during the 70s 80s.

No chinese swimmer was tested positive during the 92 olympics and 94 worlds.

Marion Jones was never tested positive.

So people who assumed they were on drugs were extremely cynical?

Not to mention that Armstong, chinese swimmers, jones, etc got OOC tested FAR MORE OFTEN than current top tennis players. So we are not allowed to be cynical just because drug testing in tennis is very lax?
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.

Last edited by atennisfan : 01-20-2013 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:01 AM   #185
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
Not really. It's much easier to hide anything crossing land borders. Australian airport security is tight.

Not worth the risk.
Very very true.

The downfall of chinese swimmers when they got caught smuggling EPOs when they landed in Perth for the 1998 World Aquatic Championships.
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:02 AM   #186
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Don't know if this has been posted yet. Murray and Federer call for stricter doping tests:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...n-cycling.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...in-tennis.html
Very interesting.

Different than the answers given by Djoker.
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:11 AM   #187
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
Not really. It's much easier to hide anything crossing land borders. Australian airport security is tight.

Not worth the risk.
After having read tons and tons of books and info about doping in cycling, I am absolutely sure that, if planned, getting a BB into Australia entails very low to no risks at all.

I'm not saying the players would smuggle the BB in their personal suitcase, of course. But bear in mind blood isn't exactly what airport security is looking for.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:18 AM   #188
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
After having read tons and tons of books and info about doping in cycling, I am absolutely sure that, if planned, getting a BB into Australia entails very low to no risks at all.

I'm not saying the players would smuggle the BB in their personal suitcase, of course. But bear in mind blood isn't exactly what airport security is looking for.
Wouldn't it show up as a liquid? And isn't that forbidden to take on a plane?
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:20 AM   #189
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

taking anything through airport security is a risk. just ask wayne odesnik.

I'm dubious about the benefits anyway. I doubt bloods values drop during a tennis tournament to the extent a bb would be really beneficial.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:24 AM   #190
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

With answers like these one thing is clear - he'll make a good politician one day
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:49 AM   #191
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
Lance Armstrong was never tested positive despite hundreds of tests.

No east german swimmer was tested positive during the 70s 80s.

No chinese swimmer was tested positive during the 92 olympics and 94 worlds.

Marion Jones was never tested positive.

So people who assumed they were on drugs were extremely cynical?

Not to mention that Armstong, chinese swimmers, jones, etc got OOC tested FAR MORE OFTEN than current top tennis players. So we are not allowed to be cynical just because drug testing in tennis is very lax?
His tests from 1999 was examined in hindsight and showed proof of doping, but somehow the legal bit never managed to seal the deal. But your point is - of course - a valid one.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:11 PM   #192
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
taking anything through airport security is a risk. just ask wayne odesnik.

I'm dubious about the benefits anyway. I doubt bloods values drop during a tennis tournament to the extent a bb would be really beneficial.
I used to think that some 4-5 years ago. Then I started reading and... my jaw dropped. Especially in slams a timed transfusion can do wonders.

EPO would probably be more efficient though. Too bad EPO tests are virtually non-existent in tennis.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:18 PM   #193
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

what have you read?

given that blood testing is non-existent in tennis, we have no idea what a tennis player's hematocrit levels should even look like throughout a tournament.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #194
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Wouldn't it show up as a liquid? And isn't that forbidden to take on a plane?
Not just that, shouldn't it be kept cool, and need some kind of portable freezer with enough juice for the long flight?
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #195
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Default Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

What has really become clear to me, in everything that has emerged about the cycling debacle and the knock-on effect this has had on other sports, is that the ITF anti-doping programme has been largely exposed as a fig leaf. Nowhere in the ITF's anti-doping mission statement does it state an intention to catch dopers. That is evidently NOT their objective. They see their prime mission as protecting the 'integrity' of tennis. That means little more than providing a semblance of testing while looking the other way. It's regarding the problem as something that can be managed purely as a public relations exercise.

When you think about it, why would a sports governing body set out to catch dopers anyway? It's almost a total contradiction in terms. If there's one lesson these organisation have learned from cycling, it would be that catching serious dopers spells chaos and problems for the sport itself, so why rock the boat?

I suspect there have been some quiet warnings issued to certain players in recent months, particularly those who are known to have used the services of cycling's notorious doping doctors. Rather than simply issue a tame press release warning players to keep away from one of the doctors exposed by the USADA report into Lance Armstrong, had the ITF really wanted to catch tennis dopers they would have gone about things in an altogether more proactive, investigative way.

In commenting on the Armstrong interview yesterday, Federer remarked that 'these are not fun times to be in sports really to a degree', realising presumably that suspicions of doping are falling onto all athletes generally.
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