33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"? - Page 5 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: Does Murray have the right to be referred to as being part of a "big four"?

Yes 46 51.11%
Nope 30 33.33%
No, he needs X (arbitary) number of slams to be there 14 15.56%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-16-2013, 06:15 PM   #61
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

If Murray is not a member of the big four, who is? You do realize you need 4 players for a big four right?
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:22 PM   #62
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

No one, because there's no such thing as the big four. Are we going to start talking about the big 5 and drag Ferrer into it as well? If 1 slam is enough, 0 should suffice as well, the difference is even less than the difference between Nole and Andy, let's not even begin talking about Federer and Nadal.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:23 PM   #63
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by viruzzz View Post
Sorry, what?
Since 2009 Fed won 4 slams, 7 masters and 2 YEC, I don't know where you got that "6" number. I count 13.
Left off his Masters. Oops. Typing on phone.

Doesn't change anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viruzzz View Post
Yes, Murray dominated with the other 3 players, nobody can't deny that, but we should concur Murray was way below these 3 players.
Bolded is the point. The big 4 is called the big 4 because collectively they completely pwn the Tour. It's not about who has won how many slams, and never has been. The Tour is more than 4 tournaments a year.

Saying "big 4" doesn't imply all those players are as distinguished as each other. Fed and Nadal's records are much better than Djokovic's and Djokivic's is much better than Murray's. The point is that all four are lightyears ahead of everyone else.

It's about who is competitive and who has a serious chance to win big tournaments. Muzz is always there in the mix, even if he doesn't have the Slam silverware yet.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:24 PM   #64
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
No one, because there's no such thing as the big four. Are we going to start talking about the big 5 and drag Ferrer into it as well? If 1 slam is enough, 0 should suffice as well, the difference is even less than the difference between Nole and Andy, let's not even begin talking about Federer and Nadal.
Quit the Murray hate you tard.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #65
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProdigyEng View Post
Quit the Murray hate you tard.
Just facts what I stated. Not my problem Murray isn't in the same league as guys like Fed/Rafa/Nole.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #66
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by End da Game View Post
yeah, but personally I think delpo is the more legit 4th member of this 'big four' club
sarcasm?

and I answered no to the poll because the OP seems to be directly the topic to mainly 'big slam players' but if we're talking the general sense of the tour, certainly Murray is in that upper echalante far away from the rest of the pack. maybe he hasn't won a bunch of slams but how many SFs and finals has he made? a shit load. how many masters has he won? if we consider things overall certainly he deserves to be considered the top tier, or 'big 4'. I suppose it could depend on your persepective, but in every field you could rate him versus players below him in the rankings, he has better records.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FleetSeb View Post
He does because even when he hasn't won the slams he has generally been the 4th person in the SFs. So relative to the rest of the field he was in the big 4 because he beat the lower ranked players just as much or almost as much as the others. The big 4 doesn't imply equality within that 4, it just implies that those 4 are all well above the standard of everyone else and so in practical terms are similarly difficult to beat for the #5 and below players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BedsheetRubber92 View Post
It's about competitiveness. Andy Murray head to head record with top players is what shows he belongs.
Murray vs Federer: 10-9
Murray vs Djokovic: 7-10
Murray vs Nadal: 5-13 (5-6 on hardcourts)

This isn't about legacy it's about form.

Murray has an almost 50% chance of beating the other three on any surface other than clay. This Shows that he is a contender with Federer Djokovic and Nadal. Murray can also be depended on to beat any other player outside of the top 4 and has made it to the semis 7 out of the last 8 times in slams.

Based on his current form, he is clearly in contact with Nadal Djokovic and Federer, and miles above the rest of the field.

If Sampras was still playing and losing the the top guys every single time would you really ever even think about referring to him as part of any top group?
Qouted due to making sense.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:00 PM   #68
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
Just facts what I stated. Not my problem Murray isn't in the same league as guys like Fed/Rafa/Nole.
You just go on about him all the time... Sad really. I understand you hate him but you take every opportunity to vent your hate. Sure you might have stated some 'facts' here, but often you don't and just go all out hate. What has Murray done to you personally, shot your dog? You act like he's committed a crime or something.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #69
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
It's not about Slam titles, it's about competitiveness.

For a long time those four players have been well above the rest of the pack. I mean, there are pretty much 4 'big' tournament types in tennis that (if fit) all the top players will be there and want to win - Slams, Masters, YECs and Olympics. If you visually represent how many of those each player has won in the last 4 years you get this:

15 - Nadal
14 - Djokovic




8 - Murray

6 - Federer



2 - Davydenko
1 - Soderling, Ferrer, Del Potro, Lubijic


i.e. the big 4 have won 43 of the 49 blue ribbon events in tennis in that period. Murray has won 8 of those. Yeah there is only one Slam in there, but it is still more than double what the rest of the tour has been able to take off the top 3. That means he is the only one consistently able to play with the big boys. He is further above the rest of the tour than the other 3 are above him.

So yeah, although he is the runt of the group, Muzz is definitely part of the big four dominating the tour. Has been for a long time. The rest of the tour are playing for scraps.
You got it better than everyone else, the key word being competitiveness.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:17 PM   #70
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
If the Big 4 means those 4 players who are currently way above all other players, you just have to ask whether the gap between 4 & 5 is much bigger than the gap between 3 & 4. In my opinion, it is. There are 4 players genuinely competing regularly for slam titles. Nobody else is. There were grounds for hesitation about Murray before he won the U.S. Open since it seemed he might be a hopeless choker in slam finals and therefore not a real competitor for a title despite consistently making the last 4, but his U.S. Open title has put paid to that.
Sensible post as usual. Gamewise we all know Murray is up there. He can regularly beat the other Top 3 and he's miles ahead of those ones below him. His achievements pale in comparison to Fedole, but he has time.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:24 PM   #71
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

He has to win a slam at least this year.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:03 PM   #72
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Nope. He has to win at least 2 more Grand Slams and be number 1.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:05 PM   #73
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by djokovicgonzalez View Post
Career wise, of course not
Currently, yes
CORRECT! There is no doubt that Andy is the legitimate #3 ranked player in the world today, whoever likes it or not.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:12 PM   #74
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Murray is below Federer, Djokovic and Nadal but, given his results especially during the past year, he is so far above the likes of Berdych, Tsonga and Ferrer that it makes more sense to bunch him together with the former rather than the latter, hence he's in the Big 4 in that way.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:22 PM   #75
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Default Re: 33 combined slams vs 1 - does Murray have the right to be in a "big four"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
0% chance against Nadal on clay.
0% chance against Nadal on grass.
not even 50% chance on his beloved hardcourts against Rafa.
Nadal is done. Time to deal with it. He'll be happy to win a few matches in South America and that's about it.
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