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Old 01-15-2013, 05:45 PM   #31
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

Kinda weird logic that just because you play good before an injury/sickness it's doping. Sure Soderling won his last tournament, but considering he played with sickness in his body the last tournaments it's nothing strange that it got worse.


Del Potro injured his wrist following a peak season. Rafa in both 2009 and 2012 actually had very solid results up until the injuries. And the list goes on.


In Christophes world injuries/sickness would only strike when out of shape anyway or what? It doesn't work that way. It's much more common that it strikes when a player has actually pushed themselves after a busy part of the season playing many matches.



I think if someone should be suspected it's the guys that never get injured/tired or get back very quickly after injury. That's when something is really fishy


Just like Armstrong when something is "too good to be true" it's probably too good to be true. We're only human...
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #32
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by RNW View Post
But aren't there proves of the injuries/ health issues of all the players?
tell me what kind of illness you want to be certified with, send me a few thousand Euros and you have it in a couple weeks.

Should be much easier for top athletes. They have federations involved as a part of this, which have certified doctors, etc.

This wouldn't be the problem normally, the problem here is (in case these things really happen and i find it hard to believe they do not) the WADA (or whatever was the name of the anti doping agency) and ATP connection, which is inevitable if you want to keep such a thing in secret.

For WADA to do any favor to ATP they will need to get paid for it. If they get paid for it it means there is black money circulating around, which means that actually anything is possible inside this circle - bribes, directors, media, sponsors, labs, pharma, taxes, tournaments, TAs, less profit.... connect all these and from a respectable international non profit organization it becomes a 4th world country, where betting mafia and everything around the word mafia follows.

It's quite scary.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:55 PM   #33
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

If you kept paying off corrupt doctors you set yourself up to be blackmailed for even more money and eventually the truth would leak out anyway. You'd have to pay big money and even then they could leak the information some years into the future.


What would you do then as a player? Kill them? This is the real world not a fantasy movie.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:59 PM   #34
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Default Re: Ch. Rochus talks about doping, suspects Soderling, maybe Rafa+ ATP threatened him

It's a good thread, thanks for translating the article. I just don't know what to think any more. Armstrong got away with everything. They took away his titles but he is still rich. He was interviewed by Oprah and he finally admitted that he was doping.

Tennis requires skills plus you have to be fit/fast etc. well, I guess Rochus knows more than us, just don't know
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
If you kept paying off corrupt doctors you set yourself up to be blackmailed for even more money and eventually the truth would leak out anyway. You'd have to pay big money and even then they could leak the information some years into the future.


What would you do then as a player? Kill them? This is the real world not a fantasy movie.
Yes the truth comes out, like the fact that many tennis players have been treated by Luis Garcia del Moral. One of Armstrongs former doping doctors.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

Some players might be doping but until I see proof most of this is hearsay. You might say I'm sticking my head in the sand but IMO there's a lot of jealousy in tennis, and explaining away your failures by saying more successful players dope is one of them.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:04 PM   #37
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
If you kept paying off corrupt doctors you set yourself up to be blackmailed for even more money and eventually the truth would leak out anyway. You'd have to pay big money and even then they could leak the information some years into the future.


What would you do then as a player? Kill them? This is the real world not a fantasy movie.
i agree, its only a matter of time

i wonder why the ATP doesnt stripping of all Andre Agassi titles? He admitted that he used drugs
what more he needs to say to make the ATP to Revoke his titles
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:08 PM   #38
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

I hope every one in here who makes a drug accusation towards a player without valid proof gets a infraction like I did.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:10 PM   #39
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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i must say you have a point but....what will happened when the truth will come out? if its true and top players are doping i think its just a matter of time until it will be out.

I expect him to make the difficult but right choice, to say, theres doping and i wont accept it not now not ever - not for all the money in the world.

i do I expect roger to tell the ATP (if he really knows there are drugs) ban those players for a lifetimw or i will blow it, if he loves tennis he wont let any player win a title when he knows he is doping.
It will happen what happened with Armstrong. Something in the chain broke, someone didn't pay someone else, or screwed him in any other way, or didn't want to get blackmailed and the story goes out, one legend is taken to the ground and the sport suffers huge losses (which i don't know if it is the case with cycling. with them it's a bit of a reversed story, as the sport's been popular for being doped and they were actually fighting against it, and were brave enough to take down the icon).

It's a real world, not a movie indeed and dishonest people are all around. What would the drug dealer do if one if his clients tells the police? He'll deny and he'll carry on, while the guy who admits will be stripped off hundreds of thousands of dollars, tittles and respect. We're not talking about murders here.

There is one difference between the real world and the tennis world - the ones who will testify one day will be the biggest losers as they will be the only ones with a proven crime.

What will happen if Borg in 10 years writes a book how at the time they were taking doping? He will sell many books, he will get tons of law suits and the guys who have been giving him the dope at the time would be away from the sport for a long time.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:11 PM   #40
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky View Post
i must say you have a point but....what will happened when the truth will come out? if its true and top players are doping i think its just a matter of time until it will be out.

I expect him to make the difficult but right choice, to say, theres doping and i wont accept it not now not ever - not for all the money in the world.

i do I expect roger to tell the ATP (if he really knows there are drugs) ban those players for a lifetimw or i will blow it, if he loves tennis he wont let any player win a title when he knows he is doping.
Roger would have the same stance as the ATP; "If you have no evidence other than your own words, then don't mention it to me or the media until you do, you risk damaging the sport for nothing."

If Rochus wants to blame doping for his inability to do anything in tennis that's his business. The fact he himself could be doping, but was still terrible; is even more laughable.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:13 PM   #41
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by ProdigyEng View Post
I hope every one in here who makes a drug accusation towards a player without valid proof gets a infraction like I did.
no one is blaming a player, we are talking in general what the ATP should do if they will find out about a doping player.

i think the only thing that will makr everyone more relax is if the ATP will publish Regularly How many times each player was tested, where, after what tournament and what was the result.

And that an Independent body that will be responsible for this.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by Punky View Post
i agree, its only a matter of time

i wonder why the ATP doesnt stripping of all Andre Agassi titles? He admitted that he used drugs
what more he needs to say to make the ATP to Revoke his titles
well, he admitted about drugs that didn't help him win anything, on the contrary.

It just shows up the wholes (wanted or just unpached by negligence) there are in the system. ATP would claim negligence in this case, while it's clear that such a thing would hardly happen by chance.

They will throw away the Puertas and Kutrovkys to pretend a statement, but in the higher levels it's not that easy. Also because admitting such a thing or punishing it you punish yourself mostly and lose tons of money, so it's a hard call when a guy who is a playing legend and you've trusted him for years, suddenly gets caught.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by ProdigyEng View Post
I hope every one in here who makes a drug accusation towards a player without valid proof gets a infraction like I did.
You can make it in a way that you don't directly point at a specific player.

Like, Let's suppose player X had breathing and allergies problems and withdrew from several matches early in his career then to turn into one of the fittest on tour being able to contest back to back 5 set matches like it's nothing. Wouldn't that sound strange?!

If you want to be more obvious you could say: Maybe gluten-free diet could be the reason for the hypothetical case above.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:20 PM   #44
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Default Re: Ch. Rochus talks about doping, suspects Soderling, maybe Rafa+ ATP threatened him

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What part of your stinking bald headed avatar did you get those statements? I hope this fucker gets banned.
I haven't done nothing wrong to be banned Now go cry me a river
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:23 PM   #45
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by Punky View Post
i think the only thing that will makr everyone more relax is if the ATP will publish Regularly How many times each player was tested, where, after what tournament and what was the result.
The ITF used to do this, a per-tournament document. Then in 2009 they accidentally published one that showed top players skipping out of competition tests left, right and centre.

Since then, they've massively clamped down on what they release.
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