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Old 01-15-2013, 04:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

Reading that activated my sarcasm detector. I don't think Christophe was being serious about allowing doping, in a round about way he's probably trying to say the ATP do so little to stop it, they might as well legalise it.

Hard to disagree with him there.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Finally, Djokovic's improvement in fitness had all to do with his success in 2011 and his 2012 AO win in the final.
Something interesting and related to the Djokovic's improvent on physical condition is that he changed his eating habits: he started a diet without gluten.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:38 PM   #18
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Ascent to greatness in 2010? He won a tight match with a bucketload of mistakes against Fed at the USO and then proceeded to bend over to Nadal in the final. Winning DC against the French is hardly greatness...

The reason I mentioned the egg was because it can be used to mask the use of EPO, not that it in itself is illegal. Of course, I cannot prove my suspicions but this was the case with Cheatstrong for many years and you can see the result in Oprah's show.

Finally, Djokovic's improvement in fitness had all to do with his success in 2011 and his 2012 AO win in the final.
I didn't really mean the USO 2010 but rather the DC (and what followed). Beating Fed was a small part of it I'm sure (given how many times he lost to Rafa and Fed in 2010 up to that point), winning the DC was another, as well as the improvements in his fitness and the new diet, etc.

But tbh I can think of another player in the top 10 with a career trajectory that makes no sense whatsoever and became the fittest player on tour at age 30. And regardless of what you think of Nole's fitness, he frequently looks out of breath/exhausted after long times on the court or particularly gruelling rallies. It doesn't really fit with magic egg/EPO/similar use.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by VamosRafaNadal View Post
As far as I'm concerned, ATP does a great job to avoid doping from tennis.
*deep breath*

Nope.

Tennis does about 10 in-competition tests a year, on average. These are completely useless, since the players know they're coming, so make sure they have nothing in their systems.

It also does an average of ONE out of competition test a year. This is hilarious - top cyclists get 30+.

Players can also skip two in an 18 month period without any penalty. This means when they are doping, they simply lie about where they are so as not to get tested. Sports that actually try to catch dopers do enough tests that they rapidly get to that two point and can't skip tests any more. Tennis doesn't, so it doesn't.

All these details are published on the ITF site.
http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/news/statistics.asp

For example, last year Nadal had "1-3" out of competition tests, and the same in 2010 (they do it in bands for privacy reasons). We know that most of those "1-3" mean 1, as they publish the total number of tests done.


Even sillier, almost all of the tests are urine. Blood tests are needed to detect a lot of substances.

There are numerous other mammoth loopholes, like slams only testing after a match. HGH/EPO in the right doses are only detectable for 10-12 hours, so players can dope themselves silly on off days.


The whole system is a complete joke.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by VamosRafaNadal View Post
As far as I'm concerned, ATP now does a great job to avoid doping from tennis.
The absence of positive tests does not equal an absence of doping.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
*deep breath*

Nope.

Tennis does about 10 in-competition tests a year, on average. These are completely useless, since the players know they're coming.

It also does an average of ONE out of competition test a year. This is hilarious - top cyclists get 30+. Players can also skip two in an 18 month period without any penalty.

All these details are published on the ITF site.
http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/news/statistics.asp

For example, for last year we know Nadal had "1-3" out of competition tests (they do it in bands for privacy reasons). Almost all of those "1-3" mean one, since we know the total number of tests.


Even sillier, almost all of the tests are urine. Blood tests are needed to detect a lot of substances.

There are numerous other mammoth loopholes, like slams only testing after a match. HGH/EPO in the right doses are only detectable for 10-12 hours, so players can dope themselves silly on off days.


The whole system is a complete joke.
I was about to respond in the same manner. Thanks for saving me the bother.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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Originally Posted by Abel View Post
The absence of positive tests does not equal an absence of doping.
Indeed. The ITF's cunning anti-drug strategy can basically be summed up as....

Do basically no tests at all, then you'll get no positives.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:45 PM   #23
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
*deep breath*

Nope.

Tennis does about 10 in-competition tests a year, on average. These are completely useless, since the players know they're coming.

It also does an average of ONE out of competition test a year. This is hilarious - top cyclists get 30+. Players can also skip two in an 18 month period without any penalty.

All these details are published on the ITF site.
http://www.itftennis.com/antidoping/news/statistics.asp

For example, for last year we know Nadal had "1-3" out of competition tests (they do it in bands for privacy reasons). Almost all of those "1-3" mean one, since we know the total number of tests.


Even sillier, almost all of the tests are urine. Blood tests are needed to detect a lot of substances.

There are numerous other mammoth loopholes, like slams only testing after a match. HGH/EPO in the right doses are only detectable for 10-12 hours, so players can dope themselves silly on off days.


The whole system is a complete joke.
We'll, thanks a lot for this information. I knew the protocol to do doping controls (I described it in my first message), that I think that is correct (as I said before), but I didn't know that the number of doping controls a year was as little as you say. So you're right: it will be great to have more doping controls (and more taking blood samples). I think that if some player avoids 3 doping controls he has to be one year off courts.

It is positive to know these details, as I thought that more doping controls were done. Regards.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:14 PM   #24
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Default Ch. Rochus talks about doping, suspects Soderling, maybe Rafa+ ATP threatened him

Ok, so please sorry in advance for all the unforgivable english mistakes. I am french, and even though I wish I was bilingual, I am clearly not. Still, I tried to translate it for you guys and for my friends on Twitter. Translating it from french can be annoying

So... Enjoy.


Source : Lalibre.be - Ch. Rochus "C'est sŻr, le dopage dans le tennis est une rťalitť !"

Christophe Rochus : "Yes, doping in tennis is a reality !"



Is doping a reality in tennis ?
Of course it is a reality. I was already saying that more than ten years ago. It is a sport that is more and more physical, so there are inevitably more temptations to take enhanching performance drugs. Now, with the Armstrong issue, we are now admitting itís not because someone has never been controlled positive that it means that person has never been doping. When one can afford good doctors, to make some personal researches on the subject, and to have some resources, it is possible to take undetectable drugs products. So in my opinion, anti-doping controls are useless and they really donít prove anything. Regarding Nadal, those rumors are rumors even if everyone wonders the same question : how can you be so strong in Roland Garros and one month later, you are apparently unable to play ? Thatís why it looks so suspicious, but we have no proof. Maybe he is really injured.

We have to admit all these breaks, such as Nadal and some others, are really intriguingÖ
Thatís the purpose ! It should not be obvious ! Everyone makes sure it is not clear. The less you lie, the less you give explanations, better it is ! Letís take Robin Soderling. He has won Bastad in 2011, and ever since that, he has not played tennis. Apparently he is really sick (officially he has mononucleosis) when I am certain he was unbeatable back then. We canít deny how much it sounds dubious. He was at the peak of his career, and the day after, he suddenly says he canít play tennis anymoreÖ I really think itís unbelievable.

What about the federations ? Are they implicated or not?
It is all part of the rumors. We think ďOh wait, it is weird.Ē There are plenty of strange things happening, and we have the feeling the best players have nothing. Itís like everywhere, there are always people you can buy ! I guess someone like Armstrong might have the resources and the knowledge to pay someone to know how to avoid getting caught. Itís a certain thing : with money, everything is affordable ! Now, there is always a way to slip through the net. Thatís the way it works because everyone has a benefit to take from it : the federations, the athletesÖ

How did you deal, as a tennisplayer, with these issues to keep practising your sport and to make it your job ?
When I entered the top 100, I said in the medias that it was a scandal to see all these doped players, and I received a letter from the ATP threatening me ďThis is the last time you ever talk about this. You have no proof, you have nothingĒ. Finally, all players Iíve mentioned got controlled positive. All Argentineans. Rather than all this hypocrisy, I think it would be better to legalize the doping. When I say that, I hear I canít say that because itís not a good thing and itís dangerous anyway. But after speaking with the doctors, we are not even sure these products are dangerous for our health. At that moment, each one, in all honesty, is ready to take the risk or is not. My brother and I have always been clean. We could have taken growth hormones, but we never did it. We thought it was not worthy. Maybe we should haveÖ. Maybe we would have never been caught upÖ Maybe my brother would be 17 centimenters (6.69 inches) taller and he would have been in the top 10Ö Everyone has to make choices. Do we really want to be in the worldwide top at all cost or are we content to be just a very good athlete, itís all personal?

That being said, how can we put an end to all this ? We have the feeling all these doping stories will never endÖ
It will never end for one reason : sports are entertainment and we always want more. If, after ten stages in the Tour de France, the cyclists are racing at 25km/h (15.53 mph) because they are exhausted, it wonít be alright. If after a five setter which lasted for five hours in the semi-finals, the player says he canít even get up so he canít take part in the final, then the entertainment is over. It will never end. Too much money, too much entertainment at stakes. But as a spectator, I donít mind watching these athletes, even if I know they are doped. For me, Armstrong still remains a great championÖ doped or not ! Same for the others. They fought, the efforts are still thereÖ
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: Ch. Rochus talks about doping, suspects Soderling, maybe Rafa+ ATP threatened him

Good interview, this thread will get nuked soon though.
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:30 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ch. Rochus talks about doping, suspects Soderling, maybe Rafa+ ATP threatened him

Interesting article.

His suspects are strange, but interesting.

I actually don't understand the argument between injury and suspects...

Can anyone explain that?
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

But aren't there proves of the injuries/ health issues of all the players?
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ch. Rochus talks about doping, suspects Soderling, maybe Rafa+ ATP threatened him

the best thing is not the rumours or opinions he has, but how ATP tries to shut up these who mention these things, while there should be a public debate and much stricter controls (maybe even combined with police actions, like in cycling, where UCI was involved in dirty business)
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

GOD i'm seriously worried ... so basically i'm striving to be a player in a very corrupt sport that's gross and is really bothering me ... !
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Old 01-15-2013, 05:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: Christophe Rochus wants doping to be made legal

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But aren't there proves of the injuries/ health issues of all the players?
Easy to pay a doctor to produce whatever is needed. For example, when Armstrong tested positive in 99, he got his dope doctor to create a backdated prescription.

That same doctor was on the staff of a major tennis academy in Spain for the last 15 years, where a whole host of big names train.
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