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Old 01-07-2013, 09:34 PM   #46
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
from twitter

Raul de Kemmeter ‏@raulfiber "Any and all revenue generated from exploitation of Live Scoring Rights (...) shall be divided 20% to ITF and 80% to National Associations"



seems the idea of giving 80% to federations is fair enough, but are all federations trustable? i hope the supply spending is strictly supervised by ITF, so that it doesn't go to players demanding higher fees to participate in davis cup/fed cup as they hear of extra resources their federation got.

on another note, if no other match scoring is allowed, wouldn't it make it easier to do cheating of match in progress results by a livescorer?

one source is umpire's protocol and the other is good will of livescoring company (might switch points, depending on liability, which player is more backed) at least that's what i think, this could be some field for manipulation.
Thanks for quoting Nati

Regarding the 2nd part: I work side by side with the Umpires (I have started the Umpire course myself) and I can tell you it is really hard to manipulate a score. There can be typos when people write down in the sheets the scores, but every umpire on a chair must carry a scorecard and if you confuse yourself a certain amount of times during a year you get your permit to work revoked.

If the ITF is enforcing this rule and livescoring is to happen, then all ITF events must work with electronic scorecards so that they automatically transfer the data to the ITF site and/or the provider (e.g. betting site company that hires the service). Problem is ITF futures don't require chair umpires during the whole 8-day experience, and there are robin umpires in the first stages meaning one person controlling various courts (e.g. in Qualies).

It is a bit more complex than that... cos winning players themselves give out the score sometimes when they come back to the tournament office... and even though they announce it, mistakes can happen.

The current system isn't perfect and if they are going to sell out livescores, then some ajustments must be made which will also cost more money and will need more workers too.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:05 PM   #47
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

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Originally Posted by FiBeR View Post

If the ITF is enforcing this rule and livescoring is to happen, then all ITF events must work with electronic scorecards so that they automatically transfer the data to the ITF site and/or the provider (e.g. betting site company that hires the service). Problem is ITF futures don't require chair umpires during the whole 8-day experience, and there are robin umpires in the first stages meaning one person controlling various courts (e.g. in Qualies).
It might just remain the way it is now. If a company wants the scores they have to have a guy courtside.

But yes, your suggestion would make a lot more sense, economically from Sportradar's perspective
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:45 PM   #48
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Finally - is there any problem here or not?

ATP and ITF sell the rights for livescore coverage to a company and 80% of the money go to the federations, under a certain quota of course, which allows probably Rwanda to get a can of balls and France 100K for the hundreds of players they have. Fair? Fair.

In order not to have court side punters to cheat the livebetting system (yes, 30 seconds faster info is pure gold) and betfair bettors, they have people to prevent cheaters.
Problem? What is the problem with that?

The official livescorer, would like to have exclusivity when he's paid for it, instead of having people sending information for free.
If there is no control at all there will be always small companies trying to sell the information to local bookies or syndicates, or whoever needs such info, so there must be some control, no?

So, problem? - No problem. Even if we make 100 threads about the worrying times in tennis, there aren't any right now.
Tweeting is forbidden - first world problems
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:50 PM   #49
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Whether there is a problem or not depends on how it is implemented.

If journalists are threatened just for doing their jobs and fans are hassled for providing updates to other fans, then there's clearly a problem.

If it just serves its true purpose is a deterrent to other companies providing data illegally then there's should be no problem at all.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
It might just remain the way it is now. If a company wants the scores they have to have a guy courtside.

But yes, your suggestion would make a lot more sense, economically from Sportradar's perspective
it makes no sense to hire a lot of guys to stand courtside when they can pay official judges (ITF makes a profit and the tournament becomes much more "profesional"). This is good to keep a statistical record as well, which will benefit both betting site and the ITF.

So it would be a Win/Win situation (cos, let's face it.. an umpire is much more unbiased than a guy in courtside.. the reputation of the tournament is higher and gamblers would feel safer as well as the tournament becoming more prestigious and less amateurish).

I talked to some umpires in these hours and they weren't notified about any changes yet.. but still the Futures tournaments start in march so there's still some time... I'll keep you all posted
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:34 AM   #51
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by latso View Post
Finally - is there any problem here or not?

ATP and ITF sell the rights for livescore coverage to a company and 80% of the money go to the federations, under a certain quota of course, which allows probably Rwanda to get a can of balls and France 100K for the hundreds of players they have. Fair? Fair.

In order not to have court side punters to cheat the livebetting system (yes, 30 seconds faster info is pure gold) and betfair bettors, they have people to prevent cheaters.
Problem? What is the problem with that?

The official livescorer, would like to have exclusivity when he's paid for it, instead of having people sending information for free.
If there is no control at all there will be always small companies trying to sell the information to local bookies or syndicates, or whoever needs such info, so there must be some control, no?

So, problem? - No problem. Even if we make 100 threads about the worrying times in tennis, there aren't any right now.
Tweeting is forbidden - first world problems

What you are failing to see is that this new rule is harming the most unprotected players of the tour, and benefiting only the ITF and federations.
All that a low ranked player's got to keep playing in the tour is sponsors help -unless they are wealthy-. How do you get sponsors? One of the ways is by promotion/popularity/prospect.

If you forbiddinng press from doing their job from the tournament, you are harming both journalism and players' as they get less exposure and therefore become even less popular

Journalism take the worst part, as they provide a service informing the results and updates scoreboards. There are a lot of result sites run by journalists who happen to provide this service and taking this away harm directly their identity.

Also, players follow many journalists that attend this tournaments to know how their friends are doing. Also, other journalists, sponsors and fans enjoy this. By killing this chance, you are forcing them to (probably) sign up to a betting site and pay for a service which can also be harmful for them --> as a player you are not adviced to have a betting site account. This could be harmful for them. Right? Also.. you re taking the human touch away...

We reached a dead-end here. What I want to point out is that this harms a lot of people who are part of the tennis community of every country: players, family, press, and so on. Taking this away is a big f*u to the bottom of the piramid of tennis.

It's not a "first world problem".. It is indeed a third world problem because we're dealing with the weakest links of the tennis chain. And this is a direct hit into the less glamorous part of the tour: those who desperate need every bit of help to survive ...
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:43 AM   #52
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by latso View Post
So, problem? - No problem. Even if we make 100 threads about the worrying times in tennis, there aren't any right now.
Tweeting is forbidden - first world problems
well I don't appreciate having my freedoms limited (to tweet, send a text message or make a phone call or whatever) because of betting. If I'm at a tournament, I'm a paying customer. Thousands of innocent tennis spectators who don't give a shit about betting have to be inconvenienced for what: 10 or 12 guys who might be these punters? It sucks.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:53 AM   #53
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
well I don't appreciate having my freedoms limited (to tweet, send a text message or make a phone call or whatever) because of betting. If I'm at a tournament, I'm a paying customer. Thousands of innocent tennis spectators who don't give a shit about betting have to be inconvenienced for what: 10 or 12 guys who might be these punters? It sucks.
Quoted for truth. I agree in all but the "paying customer" part. ITF tournaments don't generally charge an entrance fee. They're free. But other than that it is what you say. You re giving away a freedom just because of betting sites.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:04 AM   #54
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

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Quoted for truth. I agree in all but the "paying customer" part. ITF tournaments don't generally charge an entrance fee. They're free.
well slams they do charge money and the guy is right. if he pays for a sit he should have the freedom to use his mobile/ipad/latop as much as he wants to.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:13 AM   #55
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by FiBeR View Post
What you are failing to see is that this new rule is harming the most unprotected players of the tour, and benefiting only the ITF and federations.
All that a low ranked player's got to keep playing in the tour is sponsors help -unless they are wealthy-. How do you get sponsors? One of the ways is by promotion/popularity/prospect.

If you forbiddinng press from doing their job from the tournament, you are harming both journalism and players' as they get less exposure and therefore become even less popular

Journalism take the worst part, as they provide a service informing the results and updates scoreboards. There are a lot of result sites run by journalists who happen to provide this service and taking this away harm directly their identity.

Also, players follow many journalists that attend this tournaments to know how their friends are doing. Also, other journalists, sponsors and fans enjoy this. By killing this chance, you are forcing them to (probably) sign up to a betting site and pay for a service which can also be harmful for them --> as a player you are not adviced to have a betting site account. This could be harmful for them. Right? Also.. you re taking the human touch away...

We reached a dead-end here. What I want to point out is that this harms a lot of people who are part of the tennis community of every country: players, family, press, and so on. Taking this away is a big f*u to the bottom of the piramid of tennis.

It's not a "first world problem".. It is indeed a third world problem because we're dealing with the weakest links of the tennis chain. And this is a direct hit into the less glamorous part of the tour: those who desperate need every bit of help to survive ...
How is this harming the low end of tennis?
Neither journalists will come less nor more, nor tennis at futures level will become any more popular, nor less.

It's all just speculations, which have nothing to do with reality. No one is asking anyone to subscribe at bookies
You get all the data you need in livescore websites, which pay to the official livescorer of the ATP/ITF.

Family and friends don't even care if they can tweet live the results point by point or not, they are not doing it anyway, they come to watch their relative/friend.

I see no drama here, srsly, just digging deep to find one where it doesn't exist.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:23 AM   #56
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
well I don't appreciate having my freedoms limited (to tweet, send a text message or make a phone call or whatever) because of betting. If I'm at a tournament, I'm a paying customer. Thousands of innocent tennis spectators who don't give a shit about betting have to be inconvenienced for what: 10 or 12 guys who might be these punters? It sucks.
Yes, it sucks, rules suck.

I want to talk on my mobile in cinemas, i want to smoke in restaurants, i want watch the new TV series that won't be ever broadcasted on my local TV channels, but i'm a criminal for downloading them in torrents - that's life, there are rules and we need to follow them.

Internet and communications are changing everyday and rules need to follow, it's inevitable.

New businesses arise (livescoring), betting is getting more and more popular, so things need to be channeled, sometimes harming the poor families who want to tweet to the relatives abroad, which happens so very often (not). But that's life.

Before we were smoking in planes and now we need to go through our nervous breakdowns during turbulence without it. What can we do, life is changing.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:43 AM   #57
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

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Originally Posted by latso View Post
Yes, it sucks, rules suck.

I want to talk on my mobile in cinemas, i want to smoke in restaurants, i want watch the new TV series that won't be ever broadcasted on my local TV channels, but i'm a criminal for downloading them in torrents - that's life, there are rules and we need to follow them.

Internet and communications are changing everyday and rules need to follow, it's inevitable.

New businesses arise (livescoring), betting is getting more and more popular, so things need to be channeled, sometimes harming the poor families who want to tweet to the relatives abroad, which happens so very often (not). But that's life.

Before we were smoking in planes and now we need to go through our nervous breakdowns during turbulence without it. What can we do, life is changing.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:09 AM   #58
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
Whether there is a problem or not depends on how it is implemented.

If journalists are threatened just for doing their jobs and fans are hassled for providing updates to other fans, then there's clearly a problem.

If it just serves its true purpose is a deterrent to other companies providing data illegally then there's should be no problem at all.
Exactly!

Latso, read Henry's post twice!
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:13 AM   #59
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
It might just remain the way it is now. If a company wants the scores they have to have a guy courtside.

But yes, your suggestion would make a lot more sense, economically from Sportradar's perspective
I think the scores at all events comes straight from the umpire. Even at ITF events. However, I haven't been at any Futures lately so do correct me if wrong.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:15 AM   #60
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Default Re: Tweeting from ITF tournaments is forbidden now

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Exactly!

Latso, read Henry's post twice!
i read it and it ends up perfectly - no problem at all.

that's my opinion.
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