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Old 12-27-2012, 06:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
The middle-class takes the brunt because if the rich (business owners) have to pay more tax, they will just cut people's benefits and/or lay people off to keep up their profit margins. They will make others pay for it. There's not much anyone can do about it. A lot of bailout money/tax breaks that went to companies in order to create/save jobs just ends up as CEO bonuses and stuff like that, while the job cuts are still made. They will find a way to make the little guy pay regardless of how it's structured.

Obama really doesn't have much to do with it, unless he wants to go totally rogue and try to overhaul the whole system.
I must say I'm a little surprised. I thought the bosses paid their staff as little as they could get away with in the outset. If they can cut jobs/wages after a tax rise, to be more profitable, why don't they cut them even without one?
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:28 PM   #17
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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I must say I'm a little surprised. I thought the bosses paid their staff as little as they could get away with in the outset. If they can cut jobs/wages after a tax rise, to be more profitable, why don't they cut them even without one?
well, I don't know... you could well do a search of news stories of all job cuts/layoffs in the last 5 years and each time say "Oh! Weren't you already operating at the minimum? How did you find more to cut? Why didn't you cut them before?" I mean, I'm just repeating what's been said. As you can see from Lee's post, they pretty much admit that they will do it.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
well, I don't know... you could well do a search of news stories of all job cuts/layoffs in the last 5 years and each time say "Oh! Weren't you already operating at the minimum? How did you find more to cut? Why didn't you cut them before?" I mean, I'm just repeating what's been said. As you can see from Lee's post, they pretty much admit that they will do it.
Scaring tactics are nothing new. "Admitting" they'll do it doesn't mean all that much. They might still do it even without tax increase. Or they might decide not to even with one. Anyway, Scandinavia has significantly higher taxes than the US and also more people working, and Canada also, if I'm not mistaken - so is not as easy as claiming all tax increases will cause fewer jobs.
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

Obama lack balls, he is just one more instrumentalised puppet president in a row.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:01 AM   #20
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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Originally Posted by Roger the Dodger View Post
Wonder what Buddy Holly thinks of Obama's leadership?
Not much, obviously.

I think the first Presidential debate showed us the real Obama. Aloof and not really interested. He likes to make patronising speeches with a lot of rhetoric, but hasn't actually done much but talk for four years.

Everybody expected him to do something about Israel-Palestine, but he doesn't seem to even care. Previous Presidents did not make much progress, but at least they tried.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:27 PM   #21
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

i totally agree with u but he is no different then the rest.

who has leadership? David Cameron? Mahmoud Abbas? Benjamin Netanyahu? Hugo Chavez? Putin?

we can go a little east, maybe Hu Jintao the Chinese President or Julia Gillard?

all of them are failure in my eyes, they are Politicians not statesmen.

sadly, ppl like Menachem Begin, Abraham Lincoln, Simon Bolivar, Nelson Mandela atc atc are rare.

i feel like we are Doomed to suffer because of their selfishness, narrow head, their biggggg ego and local politics.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

All American presidents have lacked leadership
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th.

But any problem cannot be found?

argument.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:55 AM   #23
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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All American presidents have lacked leadership
I think that is a piss poor statement. Fact is, just how a democratic government is, the system makes it quite difficult to progress since anything that needs to be passed must be approved by all the checks in place.. I'm not going to get into this discussion, but fact is, in general, in democratic governments, shit probably won't get done unless it is the issue is immediate, dire and has everyone on board and clearly the issues and problems Obama faces right now does not have a solution that is completely agreed by everyone.. If you want shit to get done, you're probably better off living in some kind of authoritarian country. Obviously doesn't mean things you are for/against are going to be tackled, but it certainly isn't going to go through the checks and balances of a democratic system. Call it flawed it is what has been created, so honestly, these kinds of comments are really unconstructive because regardless of how much "leadership" a president may have, it won't rise above the system..there will always be the opposite party and political members in general that oppose your shit.

E: on top of the issues already presented in the US's federal system, having these almost individualistic state governments makes it even more difficult. I think most countries in the world, including developed countries with democratic governments still have really shitty governmental systems.

Either way though, there is nothing for me to complain about. Streets are pretty clean for the most part, people aren't causing havoc or running amok, the US has a rather low tax rate compared to even many other developed countries (hypocritical and greedy Americans -.-) and I can do most things I want to without getting in trouble.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

Hey I'm not saying other countries leadership is better... England's leadership is just as bad.
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th.

But any problem cannot be found?

argument.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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Hey I'm not saying other countries leadership is better... England's leadership is just as bad.
It has nothing to do with leadership and has everything to do with the system...
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:53 AM   #26
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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Originally Posted by HKz View Post
I'm not going to get into this discussion, but fact is, in general, in democratic governments, shit probably won't get done unless it is the issue is immediate, dire and has everyone on board and clearly the issues and problems Obama faces right now does not have a solution that is completely agreed by everyone.. If you want shit to get done, you're probably better off living in some kind of authoritarian country.
You are talking about government action. If you want individual freedom to get things done by yourself, the opposite is true.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:57 AM   #27
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

no fiscal cliff agreement in sight.

i can hardly understand how there can be so many middle class Americans who vote for the republican party. if you aren't wealthy you must really hate yourself to vote republican.

it's like a friend of mine said: "nothing is more tragic than a poor conservative".
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

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You are talking about government action. If you want individual freedom to get things done by yourself, the opposite is true.
That's obvious..but not sure what individual freedom has anything to do with crying that government won't be proactive and pass needed regulations.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

“a wolf in sheep’s clothing” is a pretty accurate description.

Oliver Stone to RT: ‘US has become an Orwellian state’
28 December, 2012
https://rt.com/news/oliver-stone-us-orwellian-022/

Americans are living in an Orwellian state argue Academy Award-winning director Oliver Stone and historian Peter Kuznick as they sit down with RT to discuss US foreign policy and the Obama administration’s disregard for the rule of law. Both argue that Obama is a wolf in sheep’s clothing and that people have forgiven him a lot because of the “nightmare of the Bush presidency that preceded him.”

RT: It took both of you almost five years to produce this series. And in it you have a chapter called Obama: Management of a Wounded Empire. You give a harsh critique of the Obama administration. What in your eyes has been the most troubling aspect of his presidency, Oliver?

Oliver Stone: “I think under the disguise of sheep’s clothing he has been a wolf. That’s because of the nightmare of the Bush presidency that preceded him, people forgave him a lot. He was a great hope for change. The color of his skin, the upbringing, the internationalism, the globalism, seemed all evident. And he is an intelligent man. He has taken all the Bush changes and basically put them into the establishment, he has codified them. That is what is sad. So we are going into the second administration that is living outside the law and does not respect the law and foundations of our system, and he is a constitutional lawyer, you know. Without the law, it is the law of the jungle. Nuremburg existed for a reason and there was a reason to have trials, there is a reason for due process – ‘habeas corpus’ as they call it in the United States. “

RT: Do you agree Peter?

Peter Kuznick: “I agree. If you look at his domestic policy, he did not break with the Bush administration’s policies. If you look at his transparency – he claimed to be the transparency president when he was running for office. There has not been transparency. We have been actually classifying more documents under Obama than we did under Bush. All previous presidents between 1970 and 2008 indicted three people total under the Espionage Act. Obama has already indicted six people under the Espionage Act. The surveillance has not stopped. The incarceration without bringing people to trial has not stopped. So those policies have continued."

“Then there are war policies, militarization policies. We are maintaining that. We are fighting wars now in Yemen, Afghanistan, we are keeping troops in Afghanistan. We have not cut back the things that we all found so odious about the Bush administration and Obama has added some of his own. The drones policy – Obama had more drone attacks in the first eight months than Bush had his entire presidency. And these have very dubious international legality."

OS: “Peter was hopeful that in the second term there will be some more flexibility, we hope so. But, there is a system in place which is enormous – the Pentagon system.”

RT: It almost seems like they took the odious CIA policies and just rebranded them so it is now acceptable – the assassinations, the extrajudicial executioner without the due process. It is fascinating.

PK: “We complained during the Bush years that Bush was actually conducting surveillance without judiciary review. Obama is killing people - targeted assassinations without judiciary review. That to us is obviously much more serious.”

RT: You also cover Pearl Harbor, which of course led to the internment of Japanese American citizens. I do not think a lot of people acknowledge that once again underreported aspect of really what that meant. When you look at the surveillance grid in America today it almost seems like it is an open-air internment camp, where they do not need to intern people anymore because we have this grid set up in place. What do you guys think about that?

PK: “The US government now intercepts more than 1.7 billion messages a day from American citizens. That is email, telephone calls, and other forms of communication. Can you imagine: 1.7 billion? We’ve got this apparatus set up now with hundreds of thousands of people and over a million people with top security clearance in this kind of nightmarish state, this 1984 kind of state.”

OS: “One million top security clearances. That is a pretty heavy number. In other words, we are living in a fish pond and I think the sad part is that the younger people accept that. They are used to the invasion. And that is true, how can we follow the lives of everybody? But the truth is that we are all ultimately watching ourselves. It is an Orwellian state. It might not be oppressive on the surface, but there is no place to hide. Some part of you is going to end up in the database somewhere.”

oliver stone is just controlled opposition but he still has some good points. the world is rapidly moving toward an orwellian state, not just the u.s.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: Does Barack Obama lack leadership?

Obama exemplifies two glaring problems of modern democracy. The first is when you have an intellectual leader who resists the urge to be a demagogue in order to appeal to the sensibilities of the masses. For democracy to work, you need an informed and wise public that is willing to take the time to learn about important issues, not be gorged with entertainment 24/7. Second, he's been handcuffed by the looney partisanship of the CONservatives. And this is coming form a conservative.

Obama is the BEST president born in the WORST possible time in American history. Too bad because he's a true populist. When his contemporaries were making business connections in University, and trying to make it to the elite 1%, Obama was helping the poor in the inner cities, and dealing with issues which affect them, turning down lucrative opportunities despite his brilliance and talent.
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found?
is there nothing?  Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal
certainly win Roger? Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)
Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

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