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Old 12-21-2012, 02:01 PM   #271
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

Duong,
that is interesting and thanks for sharing stuff regarding RG. I read on tennis.com that Wimbledon profited $72 millions last year. RG can't be that much behind (I'm guessing/assuming things here tho). Even if they profited, let's say $25 millions it's a lot of money. if anybody has any info on this I'd appreciate it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 02:35 PM   #272
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
Duong,
that is interesting and thanks for sharing stuff regarding RG. I read on tennis.com that Wimbledon profited $72 millions last year. RG can't be that much behind (I'm guessing/assuming things here tho). Even if they profited, let's say $25 millions it's a lot of money. if anybody has any info on this I'd appreciate it.
in the article by Cochennec, he says that the profit was around 50 million euros in 2012.

Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that if the French Tennis Federation didn't have to finance the new stadium, things would be much easier : it's the conjunction of both situations which seems to be very worrying for the French Tennis Federation. And the article also says that they took a bad decision to want to keep the decision by staying in Roland-Garros instead of moving outside of Paris where they could have made more benefits.

And anyway, I know that demagogist people think that in the end, it's just "the big bosses with their pockets full of money" who are responsible for the players to get less money, but anyway the money from Roland-Garros irigates the finances of the whole tennis in France, which first of all means at the local level. And it's clear that in the next years, because of both financial concerns (new stadium + players demanding an increase in prize money), the local organizations of tennis in France will have to cut in their expenses. Which actually is quite a common topic at the moment in France and the whole western Europe

And I have to add : the ticket prices will increase in Roland-Garros and also in Bercy in next years
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:42 PM   #273
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Originally Posted by TBkeeper View Post
you know how hard it is to get to be in a GS ? (top 150)?
It's however difficult it happens to be, to make the top 150 when it comes to hitting a ball within the confines of the rules of tennis. You're confusing that with being in the upper echelon of revenue generation. The two are not the same. The reason the top players get paid as much as they do is because they are excellent marketing tools.

Quote:
You're blinded by the hate infact those players sacrificed their life to be there
They're pursuing a passion. Having the freedom to focus on what one loves is a privilege that few have and isn't sacrifice. Most people who pursue a passion have to hold down jobs (often not-so-fun ones) while doing so - that's sacrifice.

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and you say that they aren't good at their jobs?
Who said they're not good at their job? They're very good at playing tennis that's for sure. But that has nothing to do with the financial incentives they deserve. That's determined by the market for the most part; you know, just like normal jobs.

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Oh god GTFO to all the g*y s**kers ... there are around 1950 professional players in the WHOLE world which is 7 billion people and you say that the top 150 of all these 1950 (sacred) players in the world do not deserve their money ?
GO AWAY !
The amount of money that tennis players or any other people deserve comes down to what the market deems appropriate (that doesn't mean that they can't be proactive and incentivise the market of course). Irrespective of whether you believe in the market view, it doesn't change the fact that you're essentially arguing that just because you personally value a particular activity, it follows that it deserves financial rewards. That's not how things work in the real world.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:22 PM   #274
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Originally Posted by Benny_Maths View Post
It's however difficult it happens to be, to make the top 150 when it comes to hitting a ball within the confines of the rules of tennis. You're confusing that with being in the upper echelon of revenue generation. The two are not the same. The reason the top players get paid as much as they do is because they are excellent marketing tools.



They're pursuing a passion. Having the freedom to focus on what one loves is a privilege that few have and isn't sacrifice. Most people who pursue a passion have to hold down jobs (often not-so-fun ones) while doing so - that's sacrifice.



Who said they're not good at their job? They're very good at playing tennis that's for sure. But that has nothing to do with the financial incentives they deserve. That's determined by the market for the most part; you know, just like normal jobs.



The amount of money that tennis players or any other people deserve comes down to what the market deems appropriate (that doesn't mean that they can't be proactive and incentivise the market of course). Irrespective of whether you believe in the market view, it doesn't change the fact that you're essentially arguing that just because you personally value a particular activity, it follows that it deserves financial rewards. That's not how things work in the real world.
thanks now i understand why there is no more a single human being that is good nor does good things good to know
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:24 PM   #275
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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I sincerely hope that you don't genuinely need an explanation. What do 'normal' people do when one job doesn't work out financially? They *gasp* look for another one. If they think that's below them, then they need to grow up.
Exactly that is the the problem here. Funny how you nailed the essence of the problem despite being a complete moron.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:30 PM   #276
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Originally Posted by duong View Post
in the article by Cochennec, he says that the profit was around 50 million euros in 2012.

Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that if the French Tennis Federation didn't have to finance the new stadium, things would be much easier : it's the conjunction of both situations which seems to be very worrying for the French Tennis Federation. And the article also says that they took a bad decision to want to keep the decision by staying in Roland-Garros instead of moving outside of Paris where they could have made more benefits.
The problem with the RG management is that they just keep blaming the physical limits instead of actually trying to maximize the potential of their current grounds. Anyone with half a brain can see the grounds are poorly utilized and RG is the only Slam where spectator experience hasn't been improved one bit in the last 5-6 years.

In the long run, I hope FFT get a permit to extend the tournament grounds into the Bois de Bolougne. Nobody will miss the South East corner of that park anyway.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:46 PM   #277
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

boycott should be saved for French Open

bet dull would love that
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:06 AM   #278
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Originally Posted by bjurra View Post
Exactly that is the the problem here.
You think the financial needs of someone who chooses to hit a ball are above those of people who need to work a normal job (pretty much everyone). You're a moron.

As for the underlying assumption of your ridiculous post, there's no shortage of players. You're implicitly assuming that the present financial incentives aren't enough to sustain a pool of decent players. There's no significant evidence to suggest that the persistence of the current pay structure will result in sufficiently many good players quitting so that the slams will be unable to showcase a good quality field.

Quote:
Funny how you nailed the essence of the problem despite being a complete moron.
Hypocrisy at its finest. Mate, you're the senseless and immature cretin who abides by the philosophy that someone is entitled to money simply because they happen to like hitting balls.

You can make a case for tennis players being able to market themselves better and hence demand greater pay. But to say that they deserve money merely because they hit balls across a net just reflects how much of a moron you are.

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thanks now i understand why there is no more a single human being that is good nor does good things good to know
Nice misrepresentation of what I said. Financial decisions aren't a matter of good and evil. It's about compromise. Think about your own job. You do enough for your company to make a profit and they pay you an amount which doesn't bankrupt them.

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Old 12-22-2012, 03:56 PM   #279
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Nice misrepresentation of what I said. Financial decisions aren't a matter of good and evil. It's about compromise. Think about your own job. You do enough for your company to make a profit and they pay you an amount which doesn't bankrupt them.
I Understood you pretty good just it is the thing that the following phrase is one of the most accurate in the world: "Money is the root of all evil" .
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:39 PM   #280
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Originally Posted by Benny_Maths View Post
You think the financial needs of someone who chooses to hit a ball are above those of people who need to work a normal job (pretty much everyone). You're a moron.

As for the underlying assumption of your ridiculous post, there's no shortage of players. You're implicitly assuming that the present financial incentives aren't enough to sustain a pool of decent players. There's no significant evidence to suggest that the persistence of the current pay structure will result in sufficiently many good players quitting so that the slams will be unable to showcase a good quality field.

Hypocrisy at its finest. Mate, you're the senseless and immature cretin who abides by the philosophy that someone is entitled to money simply because they happen to like hitting balls.

You can make a case for tennis players being able to market themselves better and hence demand greater pay. But to say that they deserve money merely because they hit balls across a net just reflects how much of a moron you are.
Your reading comprehension is so poor I wont even bother replying to your silly statements. I get the feeling you don't even like tennis, what are you doing in MTF GM?

If anyone here with sense and a brain happens to read this, here is my point:

With the current prize money structure, tennis risks losing out on talents, to other sports and to 9-5 jobs. So many tennis players don't break into the top 100 until well after turning 25 these days. Imagine how many talents we will never see in ATP events because they did not have the money to keep going playing challenger events until they were solid enough to play ATP events. If the ITF/ATP wants a good pool of players ranked 40-80 (you cant have events with only top 40 players), they need to make sure more players can sustain their pro tennis financially.
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Old 12-23-2012, 05:17 AM   #281
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

Exactly and goes back further than that.

If you have a extremely gifted 11 year old kid, the chances are he's a prodigy in at least one other sport as well.

There's no reason for parents to push their kids towards tennis when you have to reach such a worldwide elite level to even break even.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:39 AM   #282
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Your reading comprehension is so poor I wont even bother replying to your silly statements.
You explicitly stated your argument in the bottom quote below. It coincides with what I had already identified as your argument. Look up the definition of phrases such as 'reading comprehension' before accusing others of not having it.

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I get the feeling you don't even like tennis, what are you doing in MTF GM?
Having an interest in tennis doesn't preclude having an understanding of the basic fact that you simply can't demand money from another person/entity if you can't offer something to them in return which they deem adequate.

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With the current prize money structure, tennis risks losing out on talents, to other sports and to 9-5 jobs. So many tennis players don't break into the top 100 until well after turning 25 these days. Imagine how many talents we will never see in ATP events because they did not have the money to keep going playing challenger events until they were solid enough to play ATP events. If the ITF/ATP wants a good pool of players ranked 40-80 (you cant have events with only top 40 players), they need to make sure more players can sustain their pro tennis financially.
Weak and unsubstantiated hypothetical at best. However, what you can say with a great degree of confidence, is that with the present and past pay structures, there have been and are plently of immensely talented players in the top 100.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:47 PM   #283
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Weak and unsubstantiated hypothetical at best. However, what you can say with a great degree of confidence, is that with the present and past pay structures, there have been and are plently of immensely talented players in the top 100.
There have been plenty of mugs in the top 100 too. Many of them deserve credit for fighting on lower levels and losing money year after year but I think the assumption "more money -> higher quality" is pretty reasonable.

I think the players should get a larger piece of the Grand Slam revenue pie. Instead the national federations grab the money and pump it into their national tennis organization so players like Bogdanovic can get a top class coach. Not fair.

As for the distribution between rounds, one could argue that the average fans cares mostly about the top players so they should get the lion share of revenue. Personally I would prefer a more equal distribution, the top 10 players are hardly going to quit tennis if their prize money is cut by 10%, they make most of their cash in other ways anyway.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:23 PM   #284
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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There have been plenty of mugs in the top 100 too. Many of them deserve credit for fighting on lower levels and losing money year after year but I think the assumption "more money -> higher quality" is pretty reasonable.
The assumption is reasonable up to a certain point where you start to have significantly diminishing returns. The money available is finite.

Quote:
I think the players should get a larger piece of the Grand Slam revenue pie. Instead the national federations grab the money and pump it into their national tennis organization so players like Bogdanovic can get a top class coach. Not fair.
Second point I agree with. The first point is more complicated. It's easy to just take the revenue figure and say that it's a lot of money. 25m or whatever the profit figure is looks big at first glance. But if that's what they have to work with the following year, when you spread it across facility upgrades and maintenance, marketing/advertisements, support staff (volunteers can't do everything), grassroots donations, taxes etc the profit figure starts to look a lot smaller.

Quote:
As for the distribution between rounds, one could argue that the average fans cares mostly about the top players so they should get the lion share of revenue. Personally I would prefer a more equal distribution, the top 10 players are hardly going to quit tennis if their prize money is cut by 10%, they make most of their cash in other ways anyway.
Changing the distribution of the prize pool is a better 'first-solution' than simply demanding a greater prize pool - that should be an alternative solution. It at least makes sense for reasons such as the one you mentioned.
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:49 PM   #285
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Default Re: Australian Open averts player boycott with increased prizemoney

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Originally Posted by Benny_Maths View Post
Weak and unsubstantiated hypothetical at best. However, what you can say with a great degree of confidence, is that with the present and past pay structures, there have been and are plently of immensely talented players in the top 100.
How is it a weak and unsubstantiated hypothetical at best? There are plenty of examples of players packing it in or coming very close to and focusing on something else. As an Australian you have to look no further than Matosevic and Ebden.
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