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Old 12-07-2012, 12:38 AM   #46
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
I actually would agree with this if say, had he won it in another year or in 2011 or something when his game didn't /// doesn't suit the surface at all, but in 2010 he really did beef that serve up and play very aggressive by his standards
Still his draw was one of the easiest recently and that's always nice to have; a couple of years more and everybody will remember the title and hardly anyone will remember the draws and such things.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:46 AM   #47
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

After reading this thread it could easily be forgotten that Goran went out before the second week of Wimbledon just as often as he made it to the second, and wouldn't have won it but for a rainstorm. THE WRONG FAIRYTALE WAS TOLD IN 2001. Streaky player, and a badass on his day no doubt, but I'm not buying this suggestion that he's easily no.1.

And Roddick, how old was Murray when he routined him at Wimbledon early on? 18, 19? Yet the thread is full of disregard for Murray & Novak. Same old nostalgic shit on here.

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:52 AM   #48
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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After reading this thread it could easily be forgotten that Goran went out before the second week of Wimbledon just as often as he made it to the second, and wouldn't have won it but for a rainstorm. THE WRONG FAIRYTALE WAS TOLD IN 2001. Streaky player, and a badass on his day no doubt, but I'm not buying this suggestion that he's easily no.1.
And it seems to be forgotten that Agassi beat him in a Wimbledon final.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:53 AM   #49
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
also, someone very 'smart' said 'but Nole didn't play on fast grass', like hello genius how could he? Agassi didn't play on slow grass either. gee, sometimes so tired of stupid people on this board.
Uhh, you do realise Agassi only retired in 2006, right?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:02 AM   #50
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

Anyway the question was : how would you rank them on grass ?

not on quick grass, as many ones seemed to understand the question, not on slow grass as Alex99 thinks is the only surface where one can judge Djokovic,

one necessarily has to use one's imagination to guess how one player would have fared on the kind of grass he didn't play on,

and make a mixture.

Hence why overall I think that Agassi, who was just a little bit less good than Ivanisevic overall on quick grass, has to be ranked better than Ivanisevic overall because he would clearly be better than him on slow grass.

I ranked Murray higher than Ivanisevic, that's maybe a little bit too much imagination,

but for those who say "Djokovic has one Wimbledon title, Murray has not : fact" : it's really a big refusal to any kind of imagination ! Murray and Djokovic are only 25 for God's sake ! it's impossible to properly answer the Op's question without accepting one bit to use any imagination imo.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:10 AM   #51
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Anyway the question was : how would you rank them on grass ?

not on quick grass, as many ones seemed to understand the question, not on slow grass as Alex99 thinks is the only surface where one can judge Djokovic,
Yea, why everybody keep talking about 90s grass? Why not Laver's grass?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:33 AM   #52
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Murray Mint View Post
And Roddick, how old was Murray when he routined him at Wimbledon early on? 18, 19? Yet the thread is full of disregard for Murray & Novak. Same old nostalgic shit on here.
And this makes what of their 2009 encounter exactly? When Murray was an older, more well-developed, and established top player, but lost to Roddick in a tight four sets when both players were playing better than they did in '06 (arguably producing the match of the tournament in terms of quality).

And what of the fact that Murray has made it to all of one--yes, one--Wimbledon final wherein he lost to Olderer in four sets? Meanwhile, Roddick lost to prime Fed at the end of two weeks at Wimbledon on three separate occasions, and once more in 2009.

It's laughable that you're accusing people of basing their answers on nostalgia while you blatantly cherry-pick matches to suit your bullshit.


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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
First of all, Nole won Wimbledon, Roddick and Murray didn't. I don't care about some of you thinking Nole is 'not that good' on grass, well he is is he won W and was in a couple of semis. Therefore anybody placing Roddick or Murray above Nole is not objective at all and know sh!t. the only objective list is this.
Lol, I love these "it's all about the slam" arguments.

Let me ask you a simple question: Do you think Gaudio is a better clay-courter than Nole?

After all, Gaudio has an RG title and Nole doesn't. He faced a very formidable clay courter, Coria, in the final of his title run. And let us not forget that he has multiple other clay accomplishments that suggests he knew how to play on the surface outside of those two weeks. So if you subscribe to the notion that Novak's Wimbledon clearly puts him over Roddick and Murray, you obviously must think Gaudio is better on clay than Novak.

Most people who put Roddick and/or Murray above Djokovic have reasons based on tennis and nuances of the game. Roddick and Murray both have aspects of their games that made them more naturally potent on the surface, while Djokovic, even a year after his phenomenal run at the title, continues to show a lack of aptitude for the surface.

Federer was not particularly phenomenal in his SF victory over Nole at Wimbledon; he relied on his expertise on the surface to exploit weaknesses in Novak's game that are really exclusive to the surface (his movement and shot-selection in particular).

It's actually a credit to Novak to suggest that he won Wimbledon due to his overall superiority over the field in 2011 despite his limitations on grass.

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Old 12-07-2012, 01:45 AM   #53
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
And this makes what of their 2009 encounter exactly? When Murray was an older, more well-developed, and established top player, but lost to Roddick in a tight four sets when both players were playing better than they did in '06 (arguably producing the match of the tournament in terms of quality).

And what of the fact that Murray has made it to all of one--yes, one--Wimbledon final wherein he lost to Olderer in four sets? Meanwhile, Roddick lost to prime Fed at the end of two weeks at Wimbledon on three separate occasions, and once more in 2009.

It's laughable that you're accusing people of basing their answers on nostalgia while you blatantly cherry-pick matches to suit your bullshit.
I wouldn't say 2009 wimbly was prime federer, but then again roddick wasn't at his prime either. I think his 2004 self was better.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:51 AM   #54
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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I wouldn't say 2009 wimbly was prime federer, but then again roddick wasn't at his prime either. I think his 2004 self was better.
I believe you misunderstood me. I was saying Roddick lost to prime Federer late in the second week of Wimbledon on three occasions (2003, 2004, 2005), and once more when both players were past their prime (2009).

It's my fault for wording it poorly. I was trying to keep my post somewhat trimmed.

I agree that Roddick's form in 2004 was much better, as was Federer's. It amazes me when people allude to 2009 as Roddick's best form/best match just because the results were closer. For the majority of two and a half sets v. Roger in 2004, Roddick's aggression was otherworldly. Federer himself admitted that the rain really gave him a break against that Andy.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:58 AM   #55
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
I believe you misunderstood me. I was saying Roddick lost to prime Federer late in the second week of Wimbledon on three occasions (2003, 2004, 2005), and once more when both players were past their prime (2009).

It's my fault for wording it poorly. I was trying to keep my post somewhat trimmed.

I agree that Roddick's form in 2004 was much better, as was Federer's. It amazes me when people allude to 2009 as Roddick's best form/best match just because the results were closer. For the majority of two and a half sets v. Roger in 2004, Roddick's aggression was otherworldly. Federer himself admitted that the rain really gave him a break against that Andy.
oh yeah I forgot they played in 2003
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:16 AM   #56
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

If it rocks the Fedfans' boat (Lindsay Blowhand se7en, etc.), yeah, Djokovic can't beat Gasquet, Lu, Tipsarevic and a teen Murray on grass.

Back on Earth, best to ugliest efforts:

Djokovic doesn't play much on grass. He doesn't like the surface and is able to improve on it.

Murray, the guy beat the Federer bitch in 2006.

Agassi lost to Srichaphan.
He lost to Roddick, the Fed bitch, on grass too.
He said: I feel like I willed myself to lose.

Ivanisevic only is slightly worse than Agassi.

He beat the Federer bitch. He won Wimbledon & retired with joy soon afterward. The cowardly Federer bitch can't feel too good about that.

Roddick. 5 Queen's club titles are similar to 5 Houston clay titles.
Sampras lost to him on "clay" but the grass star wouldn't remember that loss.

Saved match point on slower grass against Mahut. He
pretended his grass win in his farewell tour over Seppi was a shock. He can't beat anyone on his fave slower courts but people call him "better on lightning fast courts, athletic, underrated & competitive".
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:21 AM   #57
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

A very tough and Interesting question.

1. Goran
2. Roddick
3. Andre
4. Andy
5. Nole

Very little to choose between Andre, Andy and Nole IMO.
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I'm no Fakervic fan but he needs to save tennis, sadly tree trunk legs will be fresh. Interesting he's never questioned...
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:05 AM   #58
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

Gaudio benefitted from Coria's mental destruction. If you think he's an all-surface legendary player like Djokovic, you are confused.

The Roddick ball bludgeoning was a result of an inept playing style & embarrassing poor fitness.

Fed was not "past his prime" at age 27. LMAO
At least the 2009 Wimbledon final was predictable and treated as one of the overhyped exhibitions of Roddick's life. Nothing more important than that.

Dick coddled Federer like a doll during the 2009 French Open, so he just laughed all the way to the bank. No wonder everyone laughed in disgust.
Anyone with knowledge of the fake FedRoddick rivalry would've forgotten about their '03-'05 grass jokes.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:02 AM   #59
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
First of all, Nole won Wimbledon, Roddick and Murray didn't. I don't care about some of you thinking Nole is 'not that good' on grass, well he is is he won W and was in a couple of semis. Therefore anybody placing Roddick or Murray above Nole is not objective at all and know sh!t. the only objective list is this.
1. Ivanisevic
2. Agassi
3. Djokovic
4. Roddick
5. Murray

also, someone very 'smart' said 'but Nole didn't play on fast grass', like hello genius how could he? Agassi didn't play on slow grass either. gee, sometimes so tired of stupid people on this board.

also, that guy who said 'but Nole won it in his magic year'. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. like really man.
Lol..

Djokovic = 1 grass title (Wimbledon), 0 grass finals, 2 Wimbledon SFs
Roddick = 5 grass titles (4 Queens, 1 Eastbourne), 3 grass finals (Wimbledon), 1 Wimbledon SF
Murray = 3 grass titles (2 Queens, 1 Olympics), 1 grass final (Wimbledon), 3 Wimbledon SFs

Yes, Novak did win Wimbledon which is the ultimate trophy, but I thought many of Nole's fans were trying to justify Novak's place at the top over Federer during the year because of the better overall stats despite not actually taking home the titles like in Monte Carlo, Rome and Roland Garros... Either way, it is after all ONLY 1 grass final which was a win. Again, there is no denying that Roddick and Murray do not have a Wimbledon title, and arguably would probably trade their entire grass resume just to have Novak's Wimbledon (or even their entire careers ) but that doesn't change the fact that Roddick and Murray are arguably much more consistent and better grass courters. As I said in my original post, Murray you could make a case that he is equal to Djokovic at the moment, but Roddick deserves to be much higher ranked of a grass courter than Djokovic.
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Old 12-07-2012, 05:15 AM   #60
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

I don't understand why this forum is active during the tennis off season ?
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