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Old 12-06-2012, 08:32 PM   #31
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

Nole won Wimbledon in his magic year, he won there because his level was insane, not because he is great on grass, in fact, playing "normal" as he did this year (which is great also) I can hardly imagine Novak winning a grass title again. He can even lost to Del Potro on grass, and we know DelPo is quite average on it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
With a return as poor as Roddick's, I feel that he'd have struggled to deal with players who not only had cannons for first serves, but also excellent second serves. Couple that with the fact they came in and punished anything less than an excellent return and it would spell disaster for Roddick. This is something that's largely overlooked by MTF. Then there's the fact that Roddick doesn't possess the greatest of passing shots. There's more to fast grass than a big serve.
Roddick's returning I thought was a bit underrated. No, he certainly is no Nalbandian when it comes to returning, but I thought for a big server, he would get a lot of serves back when he was younger. While his baseline game is obviously not Agassi status, I think in his prime he could have competed as well as Goran on the faster stuff. Great slice backhand, despite the poor flat/topspin one, and he used to really hammer away with that forehand of his. Could he knock Pete Sampras out? Probably never, but if Courier is one player to compare, Roddick arguably could have had some success in the 90s. Maybe he would have learned to volley had he been born to play in the 90s

I mean Ivanisevic was definitely nowhere near the strongest returner or baseliner, and yet he was able to have great success on grass. Don't see why Roddick wouldn't be able to have some similar type of success.

Lleyton Hewitt on the other hand, man that is probably my biggest wish that he was born a decade earlier. Such a rivalry he could have had with Sampras on grass.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:15 PM   #33
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

I can see Nole winning at least 2 more Wimbledons. Really, who can prevent him from doing so?
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
Nole won Wimbledon in his magic year, he won there because his level was insane, not because he is great on grass,
When you're a great player you will play great in your weakest surface too. Federer is not a great claycourter, but he was constantly reaching Roland Garros finals because his level in the surface was good enough to beat everyone bar Nadal.

Roddick and Murray may be have a style that suits grass better but it wasn't enough for them to win Wimbledon.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:27 PM   #35
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by HKz View Post
Roddick's returning I thought was a bit underrated. No, he certainly is no Nalbandian when it comes to returning, but I thought for a big server, he would get a lot of serves back when he was younger. While his baseline game is obviously not Agassi status, I think in his prime he could have competed as well as Goran on the faster stuff. Great slice backhand, despite the poor flat/topspin one, and he used to really hammer away with that forehand of his. Could he knock Pete Sampras out? Probably never, but if Courier is one player to compare, Roddick arguably could have had some success in the 90s. Maybe he would have learned to volley had he been born to play in the 90s

I mean Ivanisevic was definitely nowhere near the strongest returner or baseliner, and yet he was able to have great success on grass. Don't see why Roddick wouldn't be able to have some similar type of success.

Lleyton Hewitt on the other hand, man that is probably my biggest wish that he was born a decade earlier. Such a rivalry he could have had with Sampras on grass.
Roddick might've got a decent stick on a few serves when he was younger, but you were required to do more than that, as I said, or you'd be punished. Courier defeated Edberg by excellent returning, and playing exceptionally well with his weaker wing and barely missed a passing shot. Courier had the ability to step up to the baseline, anticipate and actually do something with his returns. He also serve and volley'd a considerable amount for a baseliner. Roddick tried to step closer to the baseline in his returning in lots of insignificant matches throughout his career, and couldn't do so successfully even on slower courts. I can't see how it would have been possible.

Ivanisevic had a much, much better return of serve than Roddick. Players feared Ivanisevic because he obviously had the ability to hold service games with ease, but because he also had the ability to break due to his approach of anticipating, stepping in and returning with real power. Not to mention Ivanisevic had far superior reflexes and a considerably longer reach. Ivanisevic's return is often forgotten because it was "inconsistent" and wild, but that's the beauty of having one of the greatest serves of all time. The return is a stroke that doesn't need to be consistent, if you have a way of holding with ease. Especially when you're up against big servers who consistently served well, you're required to take a risk and that's what Ivanisevic was good at.

Obviously Roddick's forehand is better than anything Goran could mostly come up with at the back, but we're talking about 90's grass and the return of serve is far more crucial than any shot from the baseline.

And yes, Hewitt in a 90's scenario would be mouth watering.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
When you're a great player you will play great in your weakest surface too. Federer is not a great claycourter, but he was constantly reaching Roland Garros finals because his level in the surface was good enough to beat everyone bar Nadal.

Roddick and Murray may be have a style that suits grass better but it wasn't enough for them to win Wimbledon.
Definitely. But even playing great he lost this year to Murray, DelPo and Roger. With that level on a different surface would be enough to bet them. it's gonna be really tough to reach 2011 level, thats the only way (to me) that Novak could win Wimbly again.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:57 PM   #37
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
Definitely. But even playing great he lost this year to Murray, DelPo and Roger. With that level on a different surface would be enough to bet them. it's gonna be really tough to reach 2011 level, thats the only way (to me) that Novak could win Wimbly again.
It depends. Nole in 2011 Wimbledon wasn't too impressive until the very end, he struggled against Baghdatis and Tomic a lot, played well against Tsonga but within his normal level I'd say, and played awesome in the finals, probably one of his best matches on any surface, barely made a single mistake in the first two sets.

I think in 2012 he actually looked better in his earlier rounds than last year - struggled less and didn't have problems slipping as he usually has. This time Roger was better player on that day, but I think that doesn't mean anything conclusive. Nole is good enough to get to Wimbledon SF routinely, and unless he meets a really good grass courter again like this year, he could easily make more finals.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:11 PM   #38
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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I can see Nole winning at least 2 more Wimbledons. Really, who can prevent him from doing so?
nobody in particular, which is proof of a weak grass court era in the next few years (started in 2011)

even a piss-poor grass courter like djokovic looks set to win another wimbledon before he retires. Olderer is obviously getting old, dull bows down to djokovic everytime they meet outside clay, mugray is too much of a mug. So del potro is djokovic's only legit threat on grass for the next few years, and we all know that grass is delpo's weakest surface
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:22 PM   #39
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

First of all, Nole won Wimbledon, Roddick and Murray didn't. I don't care about some of you thinking Nole is 'not that good' on grass, well he is is he won W and was in a couple of semis. Therefore anybody placing Roddick or Murray above Nole is not objective at all and know sh!t. the only objective list is this.
1. Ivanisevic
2. Agassi
3. Djokovic
4. Roddick
5. Murray

also, someone very 'smart' said 'but Nole didn't play on fast grass', like hello genius how could he? Agassi didn't play on slow grass either. gee, sometimes so tired of stupid people on this board.

also, that guy who said 'but Nole won it in his magic year'. I don't know if I should laugh or cry. like really man.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:49 PM   #40
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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agree with

1. Ivanisevic
2. Roddick
3. Agassi
4. Djokovic
5. Murray
this....

the reality is that Roddick prime on grass is better than the latter 3 by a huge margin. he would have wiped anyone else out easily in a Wimbledon final in the 2000s just bad luck with Federer there

I might even go as far as to say I think Roddick is a better grass court player than Nadal, really gotta pity Andy, probably the most deserving non winner of Wimbledon, was playing great in the earlier years he made the finals there and in 2009 really should have been his title. shame. but is what it is. results are different than how good you are on a surface, and he was great
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:51 PM   #41
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Lestat View Post
Nole won Wimbledon in his magic year, he won there because his level was insane, not because he is great on grass, in fact, playing "normal" as he did this year (which is great also) I can hardly imagine Novak winning a grass title again. He can even lost to Del Potro on grass, and we know DelPo is quite average on it.
Djokovic's 2011 grass level would not have been enough to take the tournament in many many other years. he just had the great fortune of not facing anyone playing insane grass court tennis as well as had the fantastic confidence

as you mention, there's a difference between playing well and with confidence and having a great type of game to go alongside a surface
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:04 AM   #42
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
Djokovic's 2011 grass level would not have been enough to take the tournament in many many other years. he just had the great fortune of not facing anyone playing insane grass court tennis as well as had the fantastic confidence
Same goes for Nadal's USO title, but it doesn't really matter, the title is what counts in the end.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

1-Ivanisevic
2-Roddick
3-Agassi
4-Djokovic
5-Murray
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:12 AM   #44
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
Same goes for Nadal's USO title, but it doesn't really matter, the title is what counts in the end.
I actually would agree with this if say, had he won it in another year or in 2011 or something when his game didn't /// doesn't suit the surface at all, but in 2010 he really did beef that serve up and play very aggressive by his standards

I get your point though.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:36 AM   #45
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Default Re: Agassi, Ivanisevic, Roddick, Murray, Djokovic: How would you rank them on grass?

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Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
this....

the reality is that Roddick prime on grass is better than the latter 3 by a huge margin. he would have wiped anyone else out easily in a Wimbledon final in the 2000s just bad luck with Federer there

No. His prime is probably better than Djoker's despite not having won Wimbledon, but it's not better than Agassi's. Roddick had Fed, Agassi had Pete. If not he would have more titles there too (1999, maybe 1993). Not to mention he had to faced another great grass court players like Becker or Rafter, which Roddick didn't. If not he would have more Wimbledon finals too.

I don't think Roddick could have a ran like Agassi had in 92'. He was great though and it's a pity he didn't win it in 09'.
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