[JurajCrane]

Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86

Because if a Brazilian doesnt play there it doenst get attendance maybe. Remember that is a 220 k event with only challenger players.

Besides, the idea for this event came from a brazilian ex-player, Thomaz Koch. If you are gonna to criticize the event, at least know that the initiative came from brazilians that are eager to pay challenger players a lot of money (6,300 for losing in three rounds). Now, if another country wants to hold the same event and pay the same, then you can change the place.

The price of the tickets are 2,50us$ and 5,00 us$ by the way.

You all want to rise the prize money for challenger players but cant accept a wc to a local player?

Nationality-biased post.

If you want to give a WC to somebody (stupid anyway) give it to Thiago Alves and not that freaking vulture Bellucci WHO IS ATP TOUR PLAYER AND NOT CHALLENGER TOUR PLAYER. But he is the Vulture, not Ferrer or Monaco.

[Slasher1985]

Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86

You all want to rise the prize money for challenger players but cant accept a wc to a local player?

It is acceptable when a local gets a Wild Card out of 32 players, and is a Top 50 player. But when a local gets a Wild Card out of 8 players in a competition with the name "Finals" in it, that's an outrage (imagine the ATP finals giving a Wild Card to the second British player in the world so that more British would come). The format was not imposed, so the Brazilians inventors could have hosted a special Challenger Finals with 32 players instead of 8, and the same prize pot.

Although the case is not the same (Bellucci can't lose this competition, and the second British in WTF would have no chance winning the competition), the result is the same (inserting a player that does not belong in the competition).

Nobody around here likes this event from what I see, this event has no meaning to "Increasing CH money" because it is played by top challenger players. The little players out there that are affected by the fact that they get very few money in the beginning rounds remain affected, no matter if this tournament exists or not.

[Nathaliia]

other players than bellucci are solid challenger league, though i think the level could be really nice if it was on clay, they're all junkballers (maybe except bellucci, who is the best on clay but also has results elsewhere)

if the ones who earned their place would be in (klizan, janowicz, donskoy) they could be more competitive for bellucci

as for stebe, it's not like he had such a fantastic 2011... he's just a young guy gathering experience, it seems he just peaked in the challenger tour finals week with the level

[motorhead]

it should be played in Bruxelles, WC to Ollie Rochus.

[156mphserve]

Originally Posted by StatRacket

The outcome of these finals could be important to the tour next year. Some success for Bellucci will get him in seeding range for the Australian Open and make him a commitment player for next year.

But if he couldn't achieve that throughout the year why does he deserve that chance? The same thing you said could be said for Benneteau or Baghdatis or many others

Fact is there should be no WC to a "finals" event but i can accept a WC if they really want to include a Brazilian but they should pick one who plays challengers otherwise this event loses all meaning

[J99]

Bellucci plays it because he is from Brasil and it is held there, but the WC is a bit odd.

[J99]

Originally Posted by StatRacket

The outcome of these finals could be important to the tour next year. Some success for Bellucci will get him in seeding range for the Australian Open and make him a commitment player for next year.

I don't think he can, I think the final commitment's for next season are done.

[JurajCrane]

Originally Posted by J99

I don't think he can, I think the final commitment's for next season are done.

But he can be seeded though with those pathetic points from here, shameful ending of great 2012 year.

[J99]

Originally Posted by JurajCrane

But he can be seeded though with those pathetic points from here, shameful ending of great 2012 year.

So, he should be seeded, he's a top 32 player IMO, he did get points from it last season, though I suppose it's not a tourney where you have to defend?

[Ilovetheblues_86]

Originally Posted by JurajCrane

Nationality-biased post.

If you want to give a WC to somebody (stupid anyway) give it to Thiago Alves and not that freaking vulture Bellucci WHO IS ATP TOUR PLAYER AND NOT CHALLENGER TOUR PLAYER. But he is the Vulture, not Ferrer or Monaco.

Bellucci is managed by KochTavares the same sports company that organize the atp challenger tour finals . By the way, the same sports company that organized the Old Copa Petrobras. I dont know if you remember but there used to be a challenger " finals" back in 2004-2009 with the best players of the last 5 challengers played in South America ( there used to be challengers in Montevideo, Assuncion, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, etc) and it was also organized by KochTavares. So this event is basically an "upgrade"
Check this image.
You can see theres a champions tournament in december with 100,000 as prize money


Its not Bellucci fault that his managers ask him to play this tournament.
The Champions event of Petrobras Cup usually had 3 (yes, 3!!!) wildcards.
So calling Bellucci a vulture is imaturity, you are probably just mad because Klizan was gammed in 2011, so dont call me a nationalist.

Originally Posted by Slasher1985

It is acceptable when a local gets a Wild Card out of 32 players, and is a Top 50 player. But when a local gets a Wild Card out of 8 players in a competition with the name "Finals" in it, that's an outrage (imagine the ATP finals giving a Wild Card to the second British player in the world so that more British would come). The format was not imposed, so the Brazilians inventors could have hosted a special Challenger Finals with 32 players instead of 8, and the same prize pot.

Although the case is not the same (Bellucci can't lose this competition, and the second British in WTF would have no chance winning the competition), the result is the same (inserting a player that does not belong in the competition).

Nobody around here likes this event from what I see, this event has no meaning to "Increasing CH money" because it is played by top challenger players. The little players out there that are affected by the fact that they get very few money in the beginning rounds remain affected, no matter if this tournament exists or not.

Not exactly truth. If someone is willing to pay 220,000 for 8 challenger players that are top ranked, it will help create a motivation to perform better during the challenger tour. A top Challenger player take 50,000 per year playing challengers and he can get more that this in only one event.

If you create a event of 32 players, the players will get less money and earn less points.

Unless you dont know that a pleyer that loses all three matches in challenger tour finals gets 6,300 and the reserve players get 3,500.

If the problem is the wildcard for Bellucci, then hopefully someone from other country will organize it and give a wc to lets say, Daniel Gimeno-Traver or Mathieu (if its in France). But you cant complain of the format if only the brazilians are willing to organize this tournament. Its their initiative, not ATPs.

And of course I dont defend Bellucci participation, I am just giving the whole context of the tournament. Klizan didnt like it either i 2011, but I dont think a guy like Reynolds complained of getting 12,000 us$ by winning only one match in 2011.

[156mphserve]

It has to do with the atp because they award ranking points, it feels not right to have a tournament organized in such a way to reward participation for challenger players and then award a WC, its totally fine if some Brazilian wants to had a tournament and give out lots of prize money by if said tournament is sanctioned by the ATP, gives out ranking points and has such a name as the ATP Challanger finals then it should rewards entrants in abetted way than giving out a WC to a player who doesn't play challengers, its an unfair advantage for Bellucci in terms of gettin a better ranking, one that players around him can't get entry into through regular means because they can't enter challengers.

I'm totally fine with some Brazilians shelling out money to challenger level players giving a WC to Bellucci and calling it the challenger level Brazilian invitational. But since its involved with the atp in such a manner they shouldn't be allowed to hand out a WC to whoever they want just because its their money and their idea

[Dougie]

Originally Posted by 156mphserve

But if he couldn't achieve that throughout the year why does he deserve that chance? The same thing you said could be said for Benneteau or Baghdatis or many others

Fact is there should be no WC to a "finals" event but i can accept a WC if they really want to include a Brazilian but they should pick one who plays challengers otherwise this event loses all meaning

True. Bellucci´s WC makes a joke of the whole tournament. And it´s a shame, because challenger tour could use some facelift and exposure. Why ruin it with something as ridicilous as this?? I don´t understand how Bellucci has the nerve to accept the wild card...

[J99]

Originally Posted by 156mphserve

It has to do with the atp because they award ranking points, it feels not right to have a tournament organized in such a way to reward participation for challenger players and then award a WC, its totally fine if some Brazilian wants to had a tournament and give out lots of prize money by if said tournament is sanctioned by the ATP, gives out ranking points and has such a name as the ATP Challanger finals then it should rewards entrants in abetted way than giving out a WC to a player who doesn't play challengers, its an unfair advantage for Bellucci in terms of gettin a better ranking, one that players around him can't get entry into through regular means because they can't enter challengers.

I'm totally fine with some Brazilians shelling out money to challenger level players giving a WC to Bellucci and calling it the challenger level Brazilian invitational. But since its involved with the atp in such a manner they shouldn't be allowed to hand out a WC to whoever they want just because its their money and their idea

I agree that this WC is as exclusive as it gets, however other tourney's can be quite exclusive with their WC's too.

[erickmartins]

I'm a hardcore Bellucci supporter, a brazilian, and I think this wildcard is an outrage. Just think how unfair it is to the first guy not to qualify to the tournament. Besides that, Bellucci is not at the same level as the others.

[nole_no1]

This tournament is shit because of the wc they give to Bellucci every year. Retarded organizers