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Old 11-13-2012, 01:15 PM   #811
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pratik View Post
Even duong and Slasher get the rankings wrong sometimes. My mistakes don't seem as bad now.
I don't care about future scenarios, that's more duong's specialty than mine. Next week's rankings, that's my concern. Thank you for your contribution.
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Old 11-13-2012, 03:10 PM   #812
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

Pratik,Duong;

Thanks for explanation.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:01 AM   #813
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

Slasher, why do you not have Taro Daniel playing Yokohama this week?
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:08 AM   #814
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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Slasher, why do you not have Taro Daniel playing Yokohama this week?
It's because of this:

3 DANIEL, Taro JPNT
. DANIEL

when you copy the pdf from the tournament. This is quite a majestic crap error from the tournament organizers, from which there is no escape.

I like it how when things are perfect and okay, nothing is said for days in this thread, but when things go wrong, it's always "Why do... why didn't... when will...", like I am deliberately punishing a player or something.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:16 AM   #815
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

Luckily, the new pdf has been uploaded to their server, and the error is gone, although I have now prepared for it. Thanks J99 for finding this error. Keep looking.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:19 AM   #816
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
It's because of this:

3 DANIEL, Taro JPNT
. DANIEL

when you copy the pdf from the tournament. This is quite a majestic crap error from the tournament organizers, from which there is no escape.

I like it how when things are perfect and okay, nothing is said for days in this thread, but when things go wrong, it's always "Why do... why didn't... when will...", like I am deliberately punishing a player or something.
I wasn't thinking you were punishing a player, just wondered what happened.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:27 AM   #817
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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I wasn't thinking you were punishing a player, just wondered what happened.
Any input and extra eye is severely appreciated. The expression "why do you" is not indicated though because this is automated. When you asked the question, I found out about the problem for the first time and investigated. I didn't do anything, the system was interpreting what it was receiving from the pdf. But since you pointed it out and I realized what the problem was, the system is now prepared for this kind of crap from any pdf, so that is why any such error pointing out is welcome. And any error found is a good rep from me.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:12 PM   #818
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

DC scenarios:

1)In the unlikely event that Stepanek wins both his singles DC matches(both live), he will jump 8 spots to #29, and become a commitment player for next year.
2)If he wins one live rubber, he will become #31
3)If Almagro wins a live rubber, he will become #10 and Gasquet will be pushed to #11

No possible changes in doubles rankings
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:16 PM   #819
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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Originally Posted by Pratik View Post
1)In the unlikely event that Stepanek wins both his singles DC matches(both live), he will jump 8 spots to #29, and become a commitment player for next year.
the commitment players for next year can't be changed anymore : they were decided by the rankings on the 5th of november.

Neither Stepanek in the Davis cup nor Bellucci in the challenger final can get there anymore even though they may enter the top-30 for the end of the calendar year.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:19 PM   #820
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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Originally Posted by duong View Post
the commitment players for next year can't be changed anymore : they were decided by the rankings on the 5th of november.

Neither Stepanek in the Davis cup nor Bellucci in the challenger final can get there anymore even though they may enter the top-30 for the end of the calendar year.
Did not know that.
It's a stupid rule. What is the point of deciding it before the DC final?
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #821
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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Did not know that.
It's a stupid rule. What is the point of deciding it before the DC final?
why not ?

I guess it's a matter of organization : there are ATP meetings in London last week, and the "bonus pool" which is the point of the commitment, is probably discussed there.

Anyway, it's written in the rulebook, and the difference was already visible in the past (Schuettler got committed instead of Lopez thanks to points he had got in late challengers previous year).

But generally speaking, it's true that the late results (after Paris-Bercy) in the DC final and also in the late challengers raise coherence questions uneasy to understand, for the "Race rankings".
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:32 PM   #822
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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why not ?

I guess it's a matter of organization
: there are ATP meetings in London next week, and the "bonus pool" which is the point of the commitment, is discussed there.

Anyway, it's written in the rulebook, and the difference was already visible in the past (Schuettler got committed instead of Lopez thanks to points he had got in late challengers previous year).
I fail to see the point. Last year, the DC final got over on Dec4th, almost an entire month before this season started. This year, there are 2 additional weeks. Plenty of time for whatever organization is needed. Also, the DC final would be over before the meetings next week which you mentioned. I agree that they can't include the results of all the late challengers, but DC is not late by any means.

It's almost as if the ATP is sending a message, "DC does not matter"
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:40 PM   #823
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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I fail to see the point. Last year, the DC final got over on Dec4th, almost an entire month before this season started. This year, there are 2 additional weeks. Plenty of time for whatever organization is needed. Also, the DC final would be over before the meetings next week which you mentioned. I agree that they can't include the results of all the late challengers, but DC is not late by any means.

It's almost as if the ATP is sending a message, "DC does not matter"
I made a mistake : it's not next but last week

Anyway I don't know really but what I generally mean is that it can also make sense for the ATP that "their" year ends in the WTF. Although it's not the end of the calendar year, which makes indeed some things difficult to understand, but it's like that.

But it's not a message "DC doesn't matter" either : the points from DC final last year do indeed count.

and even better : the points from this final will be the first points counting for the Race next year. That's how it was done last year for Nadal and Ferrer. Even more : in the Race, they counted the points from 2011 DC's final but not the points from late challengers in 2011 (which will be even more of a problem next year imo as the WTF being earlier, there are more late challengers, I wonder if they will include these late challengers in the Race for next year this time).

But it's true that the DC is an ITF event, not an ATP event.
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:08 PM   #824
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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I made a mistake : it's not next but last week

Anyway I don't know really but what I generally mean is that it can also make sense for the ATP that "their" year ends in the WTF. Although it's not the end of the calendar year, which makes indeed some things difficult to understand, but it's like that.

But it's not a message "DC doesn't matter" either : the points from DC final last year do indeed count.

and even better : the points from this final will be the first points counting for the Race next year. That's how it was done last year for Nadal and Ferrer. Even more : in the Race, they counted the points from 2011 DC's final but not the points from late challengers in 2011 (which will be even more of a problem next year imo as the WTF being earlier, there are more late challengers, I wonder if they will include these late challengers in the Race for next year this time).

But it's true that the DC is an ITF event, not an ATP event.
This makes perfect sense. DC final points should count, and since it is after the WTF, they are included for next year. I guess it is too much to ask them to include the points in the next year for the Race, but the same year for determining commitment players. That said, I still believe that with the shorter and shorter season they can include the DC final points(Make an exception for DC, even though the ATP calender ends at the WTF).

Talking about the DC final points, I just realised that I do not know when the bonus points of DC are dropped(don't know why I did not think of this before, and am too lazy right now to look it up). The most obvious answer would seem that they would drop when the final points are dropped the next year. But, consider this scenario: Player X gets both the team bonus and the performance bonus in a particular year. The next year the does not play any DC match. Now at year end(after WTF) he would still have 350 DC points in his rankings, 200 of which are as a result of matches he played in the previous year, some over 18 months ago.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:02 PM   #825
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Default Re: Unofficial Live ATP Rankings [in Post #1]

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So, there is no scenario where Ferrer will be seeded #4
There is of course if one of the top 4 withdraws
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