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View Poll Results: g. washington, t. jeffersonm, j.adams etc. are:

traitors. should have gotten hung. 1 7.69%
great men. freedom fighters. 8 61.54%
can't decide 0 0%
who are those mugs? 4 30.77%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-03-2012, 01:27 AM   #31
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Not fussed. USA's independence ultimately benefitted everyone. You think about the technology that's been created from US soil, would anywhere else have managed it? Not to mention Hitler may have succeeded without US help. No reason whatsoever to dislike the independence movement.
Lol. US "help" was akin to someone who ran into a ring after a boxing match and kicked the knocked out boxer in the nuts.
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:49 PM   #32
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

bump

dr thomas fleming claims that offends of US government towards americans are much worse than those committed by british before revolution.

august 17th - last 3 minutes of hour 1. and first few minutes of hour 2.: http://www.nta.fm/OnDemand/RockfordI.../episodes.aspx

not the first time i hear such claims. now, when fleming (the most trustful dude on american issues, imo) confirms it, that is it.

it's pity that aloimeh isn't active these days. would like to read his input.
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:40 PM   #33
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

to this day it's delightfully funny how the founding fathers rebelled against britain primarely because of high taxes.

keeping the true american cash-up spirit alive from the get go
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I can see how a self-hating, envious loser would say that.
you're getting more colourful in your language with each passing day. you're getting crankier...

but it's true. the british have been messing things up for centuries in virtually all nations and even at this age, in which the empire is doomed, some still act as if they were ruling the world.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
you're getting more colourful in your language with each passing day. you're getting crankier...

but it's true. the british have been messing things up for centuries in virtually all nations and even at this age, in which the empire is doomed, some still act as if they were ruling the world.
The countries where the British ''meddled'' are usually the bright spots in their respective areas. Compare The Caymans and BVI to Haiti, Cuba and Republica Dominicana for instance.

Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand etc.
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Old 11-06-2012, 09:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy_Vercetti View Post
France came in only after Saratoga and victory was inevitable. They did help a lot, but they weren't the decisive factor as so many people try to claim.
Lol bumping this thread after watching a doco about Lafayette.

The Marquee landed in Charleston in 1976, a whole year before Saratoga, bringing thousands of guns (the delivery would go on afterwards), professionalizing the militias and negotiating with the French-speaking Indians.

Charles H Rivkin said it, "we wouldn't exist without Lafayette."


Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTim
In the mist of history this is forgotten, move on 100 years and the loss of USA can be seen as a positive. Pesky Americans could have their slave ridden states whilst we tonked Napoleon, conquered Africa, sent our convicts to Aussie, Built Atlantis and brought the world Economy.
And he's proud of that ...
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:04 PM   #37
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

Atlantis? What is Atlantis.

At school King George III is the villain for losing America. Nothing more is said.

Btw, my history is bad but can someone tell me if the first 13 colonies were primarily occupied by Brits or were other Europeans also migrating there? This is all circa around American Independence war.


When the Irish and other Europeans start migrating there?
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
The countries where the British ''meddled'' are usually the bright spots in their respective areas. Compare The Caymans and BVI to Haiti, Cuba and Republica Dominicana for instance.

Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand etc.
there's a difference between killing 99% of the natives and repopulate the areas with white british people. that's what britain did in most of your so called "bright spots".

sure, it turned out great for britain and the straight white male in general but too bad for the brown and black people who got conquered/killed/poisoned/enslaved.

i'd rather take my chances without the queen's help. thank you.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:51 PM   #39
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

In the 17th century settlers came to America from various nations of Europe, including the Netherlands (United Provinces), Germany, even Sweden and Finland who created a colony in the Delaware, which they called New Sweden.



The Swedes brought their typical wooden cabin to America and a lot of Dutch words entered AmE. The word 'Yankee' for instance (Janneke: Little John).

The Brits gradually gained control of the territories, notably New Orange, after the Anglo-Dutch War in the Westminster Treaty (1674). The last British colony was Georgia, founded in 1732 and became a Crown colony in 1755.

After the Seven Years Wars and the Paris Treaty (1763), the Brits got the Canada and all the Territories on the East of the Mississippi. The French had until then all the territories on the West, Louisiana (much larger than present-day Louisiana) but the Paris Treaty gave Louisiana to Spain, their Bourbons allies (Choiseul obtained that, in the hope to regain it, one day, which happened in 1800 but Buonaparte was quick to sell it to Jefferson).

I don't know if there were already some Irish among these, probably so. But I guess most came after the Great Famine (1845-52).
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:17 AM   #40
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Default Re: founding fathers or traitors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
there's a difference between killing 99% of the natives and repopulate the areas with white british people. that's what britain did in most of your so called "bright spots".

sure, it turned out great for britain and the straight white male in general but too bad for the brown and black people who got conquered/killed/poisoned/enslaved.

i'd rather take my chances without the queen's help. thank you.
This has nothing to do with my statement. Where are your numbers on killing 99% of the natives. That may apply to the Spanish in parts of Central America.

And I was referring to the relative prosperity today of the countries that were part of the British Empire, versus their neighbouring countries that weren't.

In any case, you seem to have brainwashed yourself into believing that the Americas were populated by gentle peace-loving ''brown'' people, before the Spanish straight white males came and started killing and enslaving them. They weren't. The population was divided into groups that were continually killing and enslaving neghbouring groups. It was happening all over the world in those days. If agriculture had started in South America first, allowing for most of the population to pursue other activities rather than foraging for food, Europeans could well be lamenting the straight brown males that sailed to Europe and conquered/killed/poisoned/enslaved the white people.

BTW, what's with the ''straight'' white males?
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Last edited by buddyholly : 11-13-2012 at 05:08 PM.
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