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View Poll Results: Will Nadal catch Sampras?

No way he catches Sampras, Nadal will never win a slam or be #1 again 12 6.90%
He won't catch Sampras, but he will get a 12th slam 15 8.62%
Nadal will win 12 slams and get back to #1, but that's it 1 0.57%
Nadal will win 13 slams, but not get back to #1 17 9.77%
Nadal will win 13 slams, get 150ish weeks as #1 8 4.60%
Nadal will win 14 slams, but won't touch Pete's other records 44 25.29%
Nadal will win 14, and be close to Sampras otherwise to facilitate hearty debate 15 8.62%
Nadal will win 15 or more slams, but come nowhere near Pete's other records 62 35.63%
Voters: 174. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2012, 06:12 PM   #226
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

no

here are the 3 most important stats:

sampras-nadal

slams: 14 - 11
year end championships: 5-0
weeks at no 1: 286 - 102

nadal is behind in every category

compare nadal to borg instead, it's a much close comparison
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:35 PM   #227
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
I see. You're one of those who want to see the best ever in action. It is not logical than each generation will produce a "best ever" among both male and female players. But that does not prevent many from trying to conjure this anyway. Always coming up with arguments for why the current most merited active player is the greatest of all time. Who could have been better? When Williams retires, someone will claim Sharapova is the greatest ever. Or Azarenka, if she moves ahead of Sharapova in the meantime. Or someone new. And after a couple of decades, someone else entirely will be in the spotlight, and then compared favourably to Court, Graf and Navratilova while Williams will be discarded for lack of merits, by then nobody will think there was anything special about her era.
Good points, but I think everybody knows that Serena's era was the toughest of all with many different top players, who were multiple GS winners/specialists on certain surfaces. If you can't see the difference between a Serena/Henin//Venus/Davenport/Clijsters/Mauresmo/Hingis match compared to a Wozniacki/Safina/Ivanovic/Radwanska/Jankovic match, then you're not being realistic. Peak Serena is the greatest and I'm not discussing her anymore, because it's so clear.

I was a Federer fan ever since he started dominating and hes still my favorite. I love to watch his elegant and agressive style. I hated Nadal's style and couldn't understand why he beat Federer all the time. After 2010 I just accepted Nadal as a superior player. He just owns Federer and if Djokovic didn't mess up his plans in 2011 he would have already had more slams than Sampras. Sampras was just lucky he did not have to deal with someone like Djokovic 5 years before he retired, but yeah that's tennis.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:30 PM   #228
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
Good points, but I think everybody knows that Serena's era was the toughest of all with many different top players, who were multiple GS winners/specialists on certain surfaces. If you can't see the difference between a Serena/Henin//Venus/Davenport/Clijsters/Mauresmo/Hingis match compared to a Wozniacki/Safina/Ivanovic/Radwanska/Jankovic match, then you're not being realistic. Peak Serena is the greatest and I'm not discussing her anymore, because it's so clear.

I was a Federer fan ever since he started dominating and hes still my favorite. I love to watch his elegant and agressive style. I hated Nadal's style and couldn't understand why he beat Federer all the time. After 2010 I just accepted Nadal as a superior player. He just owns Federer and if Djokovic didn't mess up his plans in 2011 he would have already had more slams than Sampras. Sampras was just lucky he did not have to deal with someone like Djokovic 5 years before he retired, but yeah that's tennis.
It is not clear at all, her contemporaries have her beat at many stats. Henin had an equally good career up until she retired for the first time, despite being younger. And what has the opposition been since then? Occasionally unretired Belgians and shoulder-injured Sharapova as the only multiple major winners....else a lot of #1s unable to win slams.....but if you don't want to discuss for lack of arguments, that's OK. Just be clear that we are, in fact, more concerned with merits than with top level here. This is not a "Who would win if everybody brought their very best for one match", this is "Who had the better career".

As for Nadal being a superior player I assume you are talking about clay only. And as for the fact that Sampras in the second half of his career lost to several different persons in slams instead of going almost a whole year losing to the same one does not prove either situation to be harder than the other.
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:45 PM   #229
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

This guy is really funny. Sampras was lucky he didn`t have to deal with someone like Nole, ok. Andre is still twice a player Djokovic is. Agassi despite being one of Kings is so underrated by many posters. And Pete handled him and in spite of giving credit for that I`m reading "he was lucky not to deal with someone like Nole", oh Jesus.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:25 PM   #230
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
It is not clear at all, her contemporaries have her beat at many stats. Henin had an equally good career up until she retired for the first time, despite being younger. And what has the opposition been since then? Occasionally unretired Belgians and shoulder-injured Sharapova as the only multiple major winners....else a lot of #1s unable to win slams.....but if you don't want to discuss for lack of arguments, that's OK. Just be clear that we are, in fact, more concerned with merits than with top level here. This is not a "Who would win if everybody brought their very best for one match", this is "Who had the better career".

As for Nadal being a superior player I assume you are talking about clay only. And as for the fact that Sampras in the second half of his career lost to several different persons in slams instead of going almost a whole year losing to the same one does not prove either situation to be harder than the other.
Nadal beat Fed 2-0 at AO, 5-0 at RG, 1-2 WM. more wins than losses in ATP 1000 tourneys. 12-2 on clay, 1-2 grass, 5-6 hard court. Nadal has a better record against the other top players than Fed does. Djokovic, Murray, Berdych.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:41 PM   #231
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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Originally Posted by Sophocles View Post
Personally I'd still put Borg ahead of Nadal as defensive GOAT. Borg could actually defend on fast surfaces, & his overall career was better (so far). Sampras as offensive GOAT is probably about right, although Gonzales has a case too. Then you've got players such as Laver & Federer who combine attack & defence beautifully.
Dunno about that. Dull's retrieving abilities are superhuman and his fitness too. I'll stand by my statement. And yes Roger is the complete one. Compared to him Dull and Sampy are one-dimensipnal.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:45 PM   #232
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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This guy is really funny. Sampras was lucky he didn`t have to deal with someone like Nole, ok. Andre is still twice a player Djokovic is. Agassi despite being one of Kings is so underrated by many posters. And Pete handled him and in spite of giving credit for that I`m reading "he was lucky not to deal with someone like Nole", oh Jesus.
Yeah this board is full of shit. Agassi had the best ground strokes and return in the history of the game. He also had the fastest eye in the history of the game. To have achieved the career slam in his era was very special because then you actually has surface diversity. Nowadays everything is homogenized. Sampras was just a tough match up for him, just like Nadal is for Roger.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:54 PM   #233
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
Nadal beat Fed 2-0 at AO, 5-0 at RG, 1-2 WM. more wins than losses in ATP 1000 tourneys. 12-2 on clay, 1-2 grass, 5-6 hard court. Nadal has a better record against the other top players than Fed does. Djokovic, Murray, Berdych.
So what? Nadal is 5-6 against Davydenko, Federer is 17-2. Nadal is 9-4 against Youzhny, Federer is 14-0. He is 4-3 against Blake, Federer is 10-1. Losing to these three, or any other player like them, will just as surely mean you won't win the tournament. And winning tournaments is what it's about, not accumulation of positive H2Hs. Being the league champion is better than beating the league champion, don't you think?

And besides, 19-14 against Djokovic is not really better than 16-12.
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Old 11-03-2012, 02:01 AM   #234
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

It's going to be hard for Nadal to chase down Sampras if the goal posts keep changing.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:56 AM   #235
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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Originally Posted by Benny_Maths View Post
It's going to be hard for Nadal to chase down Sampras if the goal posts keep changing.
I thought the goalposts have always been total number of slams and number of weeks at #1?
(some also add YEC for tie-breaker).

What do you mean by changing goalposts?
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:30 AM   #236
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
Good points, but I think everybody knows that Serena's era was the toughest of all with many different top players, who were multiple GS winners/specialists on certain surfaces. If you can't see the difference between a Serena/Henin//Venus/Davenport/Clijsters/Mauresmo/Hingis match compared to a Wozniacki/Safina/Ivanovic/Radwanska/Jankovic match, then you're not being realistic. Peak Serena is the greatest and I'm not discussing her anymore, because it's so clear.

I was a Federer fan ever since he started dominating and hes still my favorite. I love to watch his elegant and agressive style. I hated Nadal's style and couldn't understand why he beat Federer all the time. After 2010 I just accepted Nadal as a superior player. He just owns Federer and if Djokovic didn't mess up his plans in 2011 he would have already had more slams than Sampras. Sampras was just lucky he did not have to deal with someone like Djokovic 5 years before he retired, but yeah that's tennis.
you not understand why nadal owns federer???

it`s not for be a superior player , the same nadal himself said that the people who think that he is better than federer don`t know nothing about tennis.

nadal owns federer because his tennnis`s style is the perfect kriptonita for federer`s game , that lefty and very spin forehand destroys federer`s backhand and his physicall condition + the best defense in the history of the game desesperates federer , roger is not a wall fron the baseline like djokovic , he is more an attacking player and with short points , with nadal that is not possible for him and the great part of the matches were in clay in where federer was even more complicated , after that even the fast courts were everyear more and more slowers.

nadal has more weak competiton in his favourite surface than sampras in his favourites.

nadal only opposition on clay were two fast court player like nole and federer , and the only clay court specialist than complicates nadal ,coria , was out after 2005 with gaudio too , moya and ferrero were both past their peaks.
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:28 AM   #237
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

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Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
Nadal beat Fed 2-0 at AO, 5-0 at RG, 1-2 WM. more wins than losses in ATP 1000 tourneys. 12-2 on clay, 1-2 grass, 5-6 hard court. Nadal has a better record against the other top players than Fed does. Djokovic, Murray, Berdych.
Yea, as someone else has mentioned, the record against Djokovic for both players is basically the same. Nadal has a better record against Berdych, but its pretty close (13-3, 11-5). Murray is the real difference here (13-5, 8-10), but Fed has a better slam record against Murray, but not by that much (only played him 3 times, won all of them, Nadal beat him six times but he lost to him twice).

I checked the head to head versus the current top 10, and Nadal does have a better record, but not by that much. Nadal- 69.7% winning precentage (99-43, 142 matches), Federer- 63.3% (88-51, 139 matches).

And so what? Federer is supposed to have a worse record than Nadal against this generation of players, because they arent his generation.

Many of his matches against them came when he was out of his prime, and they were getting into their prime. Nadal is a little older than Djokovic and Murray, and a little younger than Berdyc. He is much closer to the age of most of the top 10, than Federer is. This is his generation.


I will say this again, Nadal is supposed to have a better record against them. That doesnt mean he is superior to Federer. Thats the reason this argument doesnt come up. Most people understand without being told, that it is unfair to compare Federer record to Nadal's record against Rafa's generation.

Fed has difficulty playing against Nadal. Of course, all of Nadal big wins in slams (outside of clay) started when Fed was a few weeks away from 27 (Wimbledon, 2008), and Nadal was 22. Out of his prime vs. entering his prime. But like I said, I do see that there is a stylistic mismatch here. But that shouldnt carry too much weight. Nadal has a stylistic mismatch against Davydenko. Nikolay dominated him on hard courts (while Federer dominates Davydenko). Davydenkos style is similar to Agassi's, but Agassi was 10 times as talented as Davydenko. I think if Nadal faced Agassi in his prime (he faced him when Agassi was 35-36), he would have had a good record against Nadal. But so what, everyone has a stylistic mismatch.

BTW, Its weird that a Fed fan cant think of any of these arguments. Its also weird that you mentioned the slam record, in detail, you talked about the masters 1000, but you didnt mention Federers 4-0 record against Nadal in WTF. It actually seems that you are biased towards Nadal.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:23 AM   #238
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

Nadal is:

3 slams short
185 weeks at #1 short
4 Years at #1 short
11 titles short
762-222 Sampras W-L (77.43%), Nadal 600-123 W-L (82.74)
5 Year End Masters short

Surely Nadal won't win 5 Year End Masters. I think if he wins even 1, it will be a great accomplishment.

Nadal I think if he stays healthy can win 3 more slams, even 1 or 2 off clay.

No way he comes close to Weeks at #1. If Nadal gets 2 more years as #1, which is a stretch, he'd get 200 weeks.

Nadal will surely win at least another 11 titles.

Nadal could possibly win more and lose less than Sampras' whole career.

So I think it could be close. The biggest thing of course is 3 more slams. Then if they are even at 14, Nadal needs at least another 1-2 years at #1 to at least get within Pete's ballpark of time spent at #1. It can definitely be done, and I think is a more realistic goal than Federer's numbers, for now at least.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:26 AM   #239
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

no
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:27 AM   #240
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Default Re: Can Nadal chase down Sampras?

12-13, doubt #1 as I can't see him winning anything between Wimbledon and Indian Wells
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