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Old 10-26-2012, 12:58 AM   #2701
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

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Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
The whole reason that such a law would ostensibly be needed is to address perceived problems of under-representation of certain groups of people in the workplace, which isn't limited to just women.
Yes, but is there clear proof that the workplace is intentionally discriminating against women or is it that women are not interested in that area of work?

Also I don't see a similar initiative undertaken for men who are underrepresented in some areas of the workplace.
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The fact that women were included in the bill/law isn't surprising, given that it's often the case that there are more men than women in executive positions, especially high-ranking executive positions.
But what about the fact that female CEOs are making more than male CEOs?

Or the fact that unmarried women make more than unmarried men? (http://www.time.com/time/business/ar...015274,00.html)

Also this video explains is very well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogD...layer_embedded

Basically men and women tend to go into different fields of work, the fields men usually tend to go to are the ones where they can become CEOs of big companies, women don't tend to follow this route.

The video also dispels the myth that women earn less than men.

Quote:
I mean, I don't agree that women should be given an advantage because we are women or whatever;
Criminal law also in many cases favours women.
Quote:
we should be given exactly that for which we are qualified or skilled. But I don't think society has become as lopsided as you think, apart from family law issues (sometimes the bias in favour of the woman is actually pretty sexist; it probably spills over from prehistoric days when those laws were formed). If equality were a race, women are the ones trying to catch up with the men, who are miles and miles and kilometres and more miles ahead of us.
Any examples? I see a lot of laws in favour of women nowadays, hardly any that clearly favour men.

Women also more or less earn the same as men.

Women are white knighted to hell and back by men.

In what way are women still catching up with men?
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Centuries of discrimination and inequality can't be corrected in a mere 50 or 60 years.
So the solution is to reverse this and discriminate against men?

Quote:
I don't feel discriminated against because of my gender
So then do you admit that there being more male CEOs than females CEOs isn't because of the fact that women are not promoted solely because of their gender?

Quote:
Well, that was the accepted social order for a really long time and it was pretty awful, so no.
It wasn't really men controlling society per se, it was basically the rich men controlling society. It was awful for anyone who wasn't rich or had power. It wasn't only women who suffered in those days.

Quote:
On the other hand, women have never been in a dominant position before, and since women's biological and emotional make-up are different from men's, maybe we would be a lot more fair than you were if we were to be the dominant gender.
Yep the result of which we are seeing today;

Law after law made favouring women in the name of 'equality'.

Children being raised by single mothers without a father influence and in turn losing their natural tendencies and masculinity.

Feminists demanding ridiculous things such as the castration of men and men to be outlawed from urinating while standing up (lolwut?)

Men being portrayed as weak characters in the media and effectively becoming laughing stock.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:23 AM   #2702
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

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Originally Posted by acionescu View Post
30?

Did it ever occur to you that my shoes need is due to my difficult youth in the communist( or whatever it was but surely felt like crap ) years?
Single income(with five dependents) middle middle class upbringing in India was so luxurious- it makes it difficult for me to imagine what you went through.

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hema only buys stuff she has no need for

what do u expect from middle class americans who have hindi white supremacist husbands...
True. Any thing deemed a necessity is promptly discarded and immediately replaced with an appropriately worthless item of luxury.



Also, neither men nor women deserve any privileges, are both equally loathsome and all rights stripped off them must promptly be granted to non-human animals instead.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:06 AM   #2703
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

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Watch this video, and if you think people have the power after watching it, then ...

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Spending time with your children and not being a wage slave at some soulless corporation or government bureaucracy sounds like hell. Haven't we progressed beyond the idea that it is in loving relationships with other people that we find fulfillment and meaning? Climbing the corporate ladder is essential in the pursuit of happiness.
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Match Point Novak needs to be immortalized in sculpture, like Michelangelo's David. I'm sure that once he's gone to tennis Valhalla, his statue will have his stones as the focal point of attention, and tennis fans will make a meccan-like pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime, in order to rub those lucky stones, like the budda's belly.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:48 AM   #2704
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

About problems in the near future: - no water -no oil - damages to the environment -Kyoto protocol needs to be observed (environment)

-war: clash of the civilizations: muslim countries want to share the richness in the world. Biggest threats are Iran. Middle west still is hot. The risk of authoritarian governments is lower than 50 years ago, Latin America is " safe" Europe too, the biggest problem is the rise of Muslims in Syria, Egypt, Lybia...

-Main goals: lower the growth rate in India Pakistan Bangladesh, Nigeria. Increase free trade. Spread wealth. Yes, I am a bit malthusian.

-Economical system will probably be reinforced, capitalism must change to some kind of igualitarianism but will probably be a blend between socialism and capitalism, the welfare state should be replaced by some kind of Neo-Neokeynesianism system with the rise of high new powerful technologies employing a lot of people and making them live better lives. Which means: no more mining camps, or poor agriculture, but the help of machines in the agriculture together with the rise of new technological industries. Science is the key.


About woman rights, only one thing: no law will give women the same treatment as men, only education and higher morality and ethics in the society. In other words, women will only be respected when humans start respecting each other, and this will take probably 200 years or more, but I do believe that at one point such protective laws wont be " that " needed.
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Old 10-26-2012, 06:02 AM   #2705
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

Arsen, after watching this movie, do you think the world is going into the wrong direction? :

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Old 10-26-2012, 06:44 AM   #2706
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

One of the biggest crisis right now is in Mali, the muslims retrograde fundamentalists took the north of the country, so it just shows that those are the worst places in the world now, the ones with those fanatics.
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Old 10-26-2012, 07:01 AM   #2707
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

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Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post
Arsen, after watching this movie, do you think the world is going into the wrong direction? :

That's nice and shiny. Kids love that video.

But honestly, if I were not actually living on this planet, and were an alien, this video would convince me that humanity is going forward with the speed of light...

In reality, you can't say income really went up. Inflation went up. I have old bills of 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 dinars. Wow, I must have been rich in the 90s...

So, no. As a matter of fact, the purchasing power actually went down.

Because more money effectively means more debt in the current system.



As for health, obviously science has developed and that's making people live longer. Capitalism though, is definitely not aiding this. It's actually slowing it down.

How would the pharmaceutical companies profit if everyone was healthy?

They operate similarly to the tech companies, and pretty much every other industry today. New iPhone every year. When it comes out, the old one is outdated. Why? So habibkos would buy them. Buy and don't think why you do it, just do it. It's new and better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

If you ask yourself, "Can the world live without capitalism?", rather ask, "Can the world live without something that actively seeks to exhaust it?"
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Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
Spending time with your children and not being a wage slave at some soulless corporation or government bureaucracy sounds like hell. Haven't we progressed beyond the idea that it is in loving relationships with other people that we find fulfillment and meaning? Climbing the corporate ladder is essential in the pursuit of happiness.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Match Point Novak needs to be immortalized in sculpture, like Michelangelo's David. I'm sure that once he's gone to tennis Valhalla, his statue will have his stones as the focal point of attention, and tennis fans will make a meccan-like pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime, in order to rub those lucky stones, like the budda's belly.

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Old 10-26-2012, 02:42 PM   #2708
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

The point of the video isnt exactly to show that humanity is getting better in the speed of light, although if we consider the fact we live longer, we cannot denny the advances. How would we have to desire to create medicines if it wasnt the desire to profit? We arent good people with the desire to treat everyone. We are wolves (Hobbes, Locke) We, humans, will only waste time into something if it can gives us advantages. Otherwise, instead of researching labs, we would have some crazy Flemings guys discovering peniciline by serendipity.

As we can see through the 1800- 1900 data the big majority of countries in that century remanined " poor and sick", with many of that reasons being caused by imperialism and capitalism. I mean, India, China, Brasil and lets say, Latin America were stuck in bad economies, basically exporting agriculture products or being slaves to Great britain comerce demands. So I wont even start about how much those countries are better now than 100 years ago. But the point is- are they better than 200 years before the industrial revolution? I challenge someone in this thread to tell how much humans could live better without technology just as before the industrial revolution, in the time of mercantilism...hmm.


Also Income is probably inflation- updated, so you cant say exactly that the purchase power went down. It most probably stayed the same- with the advantage that now we have technology and more open borders politically speaking, so you can go to Poland every time now . Capitalism demochracy is defeating authoritarianism. Or at least, trying. I mean, in 1950 you could buy a new tv and get a train to Wroclaw to meet Nathii. Now you can get a plane and use the internet with the same pruchase power. Probably a slight better world, maybe not lightyears better than in the 50's, but at least now we can talk with some Madagascar guys using the net lol.

About planned obsolescence: it gives jobs to people in industry. Specially in the lamps ones. A bit less in the Osram ones, probably, because they last a bit longer, I suppose.

But in the end:

The biggest proof that capitalism helped the society in the end are the memes. By helping the internet to develop, capitalism helped ourselves to exercise our collective unconscious to trade much more data that we could ever imagine. The lolcats, the fuck yeah bros and the captain obvious concepts show we are smarter than ever. Hurrah, capitalism!


In the end is all about lifestyles. Fuck yeah, bro.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:04 PM   #2709
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

Well, your whole premise is flawed since the start, so I didn't bother to read that.

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"...For their conditioning assumes a static identity and challenging one's belief system, usually results in insult and apprehension. For being wrong is erroneously associated with failure. When in fact to be proven wrong should be celebrated. For it is elevating someone to a new level of understanding, furthering awareness..."
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Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
Spending time with your children and not being a wage slave at some soulless corporation or government bureaucracy sounds like hell. Haven't we progressed beyond the idea that it is in loving relationships with other people that we find fulfillment and meaning? Climbing the corporate ladder is essential in the pursuit of happiness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Match Point Novak needs to be immortalized in sculpture, like Michelangelo's David. I'm sure that once he's gone to tennis Valhalla, his statue will have his stones as the focal point of attention, and tennis fans will make a meccan-like pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime, in order to rub those lucky stones, like the budda's belly.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #2710
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

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Any examples? I see a lot of laws in favour of women nowadays, hardly any that clearly favour men.
That would be absolutely politically incorrect. But the point is that affirmative action laws or whatever they are called in a particular country are enacted to correct perceived inequalities in certain segments of society. The fact that there are hardly any laws that favour men is probably because men have not historically been discriminated against on the basis of their gender (race, religion, etc are separate issues).

Quote:
Women also more or less earn the same as men.

Women are white knighted to hell and back by men.

In what way are women still catching up with men?
You really think there's true equality? I'll only go as far as to say that the situation in most developed, capitalist societies are more equal than it was 50/60 years ago. Equality isn't only about earning capacity and/or income; just because women earn roughly the same as men, doesn't mean that we afforded the same respect as men. To give a very obvious example, the entertainment industry doesn't objectify men even half as much as it objectifies and exploits women. For every Abercrombie & Fitch advertisement of a half naked man, you'll see a disproportionate number of advertisements featuring scantily-clad women in suggestive poses.

Let's move out of our comfort zone for a second and consider the plight of women in backward shitholes like Saudi Arabia and African villages that still practice FGM. Let's consider Islamic laws that allow men to have up to four wives but nothing similar for women. Let's consider deeply-entrenched cultural perceptions that deem swearing "unlady-like", whatever the hell that means. There's only so much the law can do to promote gender equality; the rest of it - an overwhelming proportion - is a matter of social and cultural perceptions.

Quote:
So the solution is to reverse this and discriminate against men?
Does that law really discriminate against men though? From what I read in the article, it gives employers the option to hire a candidate to fill certain quotas. It does not force all employers to set a quota of males, females, whites, blacks, etc in their workplace. It would plausibly lead to some discriminatory hiring policies, but it would not be on the same scale as denying voting rights to women, for example. For the record, I don't think it's a good law at all, but you're making it sound like it seeks only to protect women when its coverage extends to racial minorities and disabled people. There is a huge distinction in the impact of a statute that seeks to protect ONLY women and one that seeks to protect a group of minoritiies, INLCUDING women.

In any event, I don't agree with affirmative action at all. I am very Singaporean in this regard: I believe in pure meritocracy. You get the job that you deserve based on your skills and qualifications. Nothing else should factor in the equation.


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Originally Posted by finishingmove View Post
Watch this video, and if you think people have the power after watching it, then ...
I posted that emoticon not because I disagreed but because I found it funny how you phrased it.

The video is too long. I need to study.

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
Also, neither men nor women deserve any privileges, are both equally loathsome and all rights stripped off them must promptly be granted to non-human animals instead.
I agree. Animals should take over.

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Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post

About woman rights, only one thing: no law will give women the same treatment as men, only education and higher morality and ethics in the society. In other words, women will only be respected when humans start respecting each other, and this will take probably 200 years or more, but I do believe that at one point such protective laws wont be " that " needed.
Yes.

Anyway MTF is supposed to be a place where my brain can relax, so this serious conversation should stop now.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:21 PM   #2711
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

Basically you believe people are bad 'by nature' which is a wrong and very dangerous notion actually.

But this is the mindset of people living in capitalism. It's hard to break out of it.
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Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
Spending time with your children and not being a wage slave at some soulless corporation or government bureaucracy sounds like hell. Haven't we progressed beyond the idea that it is in loving relationships with other people that we find fulfillment and meaning? Climbing the corporate ladder is essential in the pursuit of happiness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Match Point Novak needs to be immortalized in sculpture, like Michelangelo's David. I'm sure that once he's gone to tennis Valhalla, his statue will have his stones as the focal point of attention, and tennis fans will make a meccan-like pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime, in order to rub those lucky stones, like the budda's belly.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:23 PM   #2712
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

What premise Arsen? Lol. You dont understand i was talking about quality of life, not pureness of buying power.

An Atari Videogame was worth 200$ dollars in the 1980's. The same Atari videogame can be bought now for $150, inflation- updated, while at the same time you can buy a better videogame with, lets say, 500$.

Even if the buying power is the same or downgraded, the quality of many products increased.


edit: I am not saying people are bad by nature absolutely, I think the quality of people is determined by the level of instruction or culture we have. Rome, Athens or old Persia were 10 x more perverted and cruel than modern society. People killed their children, assassination was the law and the Hamurabi laws were " eye to eye, teeth to theetg". Modern society however developed stronger ethics and morality that in such natural state, Rousseau/ Hobbes speaking, we werent capable of developing because we were too primitive/ indians.

I am not saying that capitalism will last forever, but I think for the actual moral development is the best system we have, however, in the future, I am capable of changing my idea to something closer to socialism. The thing I believe is: society wasnt prepared to socialism when it struck Russia because neither we had: the technology to live greater lifes, the morals/ethics or even the ambientalism idea we have today ( they created a pollution monster called Russia and now China without any respect for the environment- yet, its more socialism than capitalism).
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:23 PM   #2713
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

Speaking of bad people Il Silvio Berlusconi gets 4 years in prison for tax evasion.

He has some more time for some bunga bunga parties.
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:29 PM   #2714
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Default Re: Attention Seekers Vol. 2012 - Woman virginity is worth $780,000 USD.

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What premise Arsen? Lol. You dont understand i was talking about quality of life, not pureness of buying power.

An Atari Videogame was worth 200$ dollars in the 1980's. The same Atari videogame can be bought now for $150, inflation- updated, while at the same time you can buy a better videogame with, lets say, 500$.

Even if the buying power is the same or downgraded, the quality of many products increased.
The quality of life is dropping and will continue to drop.

As for the technology, capitalism is intentionally slowing down the progress of it.

More jobs? Yeah right. Why would people work at all ? Machines can do things better on tasks where human intervention is not required.

This is only an issue in a monetary system. Jobs. Lol...

Quality of products?

If you bought a TV 30 years ago, it's probably still working, while new plasma or LCD TVs have an estimated lifespan of 5 years.

Come on, do you even realize what you're saying?

Not to mention everything technology related is made in China nowadays. Because of capitalism. That's not what I call quality.
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Spending time with your children and not being a wage slave at some soulless corporation or government bureaucracy sounds like hell. Haven't we progressed beyond the idea that it is in loving relationships with other people that we find fulfillment and meaning? Climbing the corporate ladder is essential in the pursuit of happiness.
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Match Point Novak needs to be immortalized in sculpture, like Michelangelo's David. I'm sure that once he's gone to tennis Valhalla, his statue will have his stones as the focal point of attention, and tennis fans will make a meccan-like pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime, in order to rub those lucky stones, like the budda's belly.

Last edited by finishingmove : 10-26-2012 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:33 PM   #2715
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edit: I am not saying people are bad by nature absolutely, I think the quality of people is determined by the level of instruction or culture we have. Rome, Athens or old Persia were 10 x more perverted and cruel than modern society. People killed their children, assassination was the law and the Hamurabi laws were " eye to eye, teeth to theetg". Modern society however developed stronger ethics and morality that in such natural state, Rousseau/ Hobbes speaking, we werent capable of developing because we were too primitive/ indians.

I am not saying that capitalism will last forever, but I think for the actual moral development is the best system we have, however, in the future, I am capable of changing my idea to something closer to socialism. The thing I believe is: society wasnt prepared to socialism when it struck Russia because neither we had: the technology to live greater lifes, the morals/ethics or even the ambientalism idea we have today ( they created a pollution monster called Russia and now China without any respect for the environment- yet, its more socialism than capitalism).
I agree with everything here except the bold part.

This is only what they want people to believe.

Imagine how many people are starving and living on the edge of poverty today. They are minds, creative power going to waste.

Imagine if those people didn't have to worry about what their children will eat for dinner. Would they not be able to put their minds to better use then? For the benefit of whole humanity.
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Originally Posted by Mjau! View Post
Spending time with your children and not being a wage slave at some soulless corporation or government bureaucracy sounds like hell. Haven't we progressed beyond the idea that it is in loving relationships with other people that we find fulfillment and meaning? Climbing the corporate ladder is essential in the pursuit of happiness.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Match Point Novak needs to be immortalized in sculpture, like Michelangelo's David. I'm sure that once he's gone to tennis Valhalla, his statue will have his stones as the focal point of attention, and tennis fans will make a meccan-like pilgrimage at least once in their lifetime, in order to rub those lucky stones, like the budda's belly.
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