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5/5- Almost 100% spot on, Mr. Groove. I may switch a few around here or there, but good work 62 18.02%
4/5- More or less. I disagree with a few, but not bad at all 146 42.44%
3/5- Hmmmm, I dunno. Some look a bit dicey, mate 49 14.24%
2/5- Are you nuts? Why is X player in Y position? You are completely dissing Z player! 19 5.52%
1/5- Are you high and or drunk? WTF?!?!?! 68 19.77%
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:43 AM   #1156
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (All slam champs and #1's, post #11

Also, if you counted Philly pro, Pro tour and ToC as slams, then you have to be consistent and count at least WTF/TMC and Indian Wells for slams as well.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #1157
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (All slam champs and #1's, post #11

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Why wouldn't I? TOC was a Pro Slam, according to Karoly Mazak and his pdf, The Concise History of Tennis. I counted all slams.



It is, in my opinion, the most fair way to do it. Many years there were split #1's.

If we see the year end champions from open era, we can note that take all weeks of a calendar year is not the rule. IMO the same ocurred pre open era.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:12 PM   #1158
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (All slam champs and #1's, post #11

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I see you're counting Tournament of Champions as slams... I think you should count WFT titles in modern era then.

Anyway I think you should stick to wiki's count, perhaps subtracting amateur slams. As I said before, I think Rosewall leads the list with 19 (discounting 4 amateur slams)
I AGREE! This is getting beyond silly. Pro Slams: Wembly, French Pro and US Pro. Open Slams: USO, AO, Wimbledon, French. The way things are going here now, every other tournament will be a slam in order to promote one's favorite players. Rosewall has 19 or 23 sanctioned slams, ACCEPT THE REALITY! I am not saying he is the GOAT, there is no one GOAT, but he deserves to be in the top 5greatest of all-time. He also had 5 years as undisputed or joint #1. Joint #1, is still #1, IMO. Again, Tilden did not do that well in the mid-late 20's when the French top 3 were competing in the same slams he was competing in.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:28 PM   #1159
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Default Re: Professor Johnny Groove's Top 55 players ever (All slam champs and #1's, post #11

I have expanded it to the Top 160 of all time. My information is from Karoly Mazak's Concise History of Tennis, where his extensive research makes mine look like child's play. Wikipedia was a fine start to my search, but not the end all be all. I have slaved over this for some time, and unless you believe that Year End Masters or Davis Cups or Indian Wells titles should count here, you are free to make up your own list. Just cause someone has the audacity to say the Fed is NOT the GOAT, and is, God forbid, #3, doesn't mean this list is invalid. And to those saying I am doing this to enhance a fave? I dropped Nadal, my all time fave, from 9 to 20 with my new stats, so STFU.

This is my master list, active players in bold:

1. Pancho Gonzales, 364 weeks and 20.66 slams
2. Rod Laver, 277 weeks and 19.195 slams
3. Roger Federer, 300 weeks and 17 slams
4. Bill Tilden, 330 weeks and 14.143 slams
5. Ken Rosewall, 242 weeks and 20.2 slams
6. Pete Sampras, 286 weeks and 14 slams
7. Don Budge, 303 weeks and 10.5 slams
8. William Renshaw, 286 weeks and 11.165 slams
9. Laurie Doherty, 252 weeks and 7.665 slams
10. Jack Kramer, 234 weeks and 8.195 slams
11. Ivan Lendl, 234 weeks and 8 slams
12. Ellsworth Vines, 191 weeks and 10.035 slams
13. William Larned- 199 weeks and 8 slams
14. Bjorn Borg, 150 weeks and 11 slams
15. Joshua Pim, 173 weeks 9 slams
16. Jimmy Connors, 182 weeks and 8 slams
17. John McEnroe, 170 weeks and 8 slams
18. Bobby Riggs, 156 weeks and 8.98 slams
19. Henri Cochet, 147 weeks and 8.145 slams
20. Rafael Nadal, 102 weeks and 11 slams
21. Tony Wilding, 130 weeks and 8.665 slams
22. Fred Perry, 121 weeks and 8.7 slams
23. Reggie Doherty, 139 weeks and 7 slams
24. Wilfred Baddeley, 122 weeks and 8 slams
25. Andre Agassi, 101 weeks and 8 slams
26. Rene Lacoste, 104 weeks and 6.8 slams
27. Ernest Resnhaw, 104 weeks and 6 slams
28. Stefan Edberg- 88 weeks and 6 slams
29. Bill Johnston- 104 weeks and 4.33 slams
30. John Newcombe- 70 weeks and 6.5 slams
31. Norman Brookes- 78 weeks and 5.665 slams
32. John Hartley- 104 weeks and 2.665 slams
33. Lindley Murray- 104 weeks and 2 slams
34. Lew Hoad- 26 weeks and 7.38 slams
35. Roy Emerson, 0 weeks and 9.21 slams
36. Jack Crawford- 52 weeks and 5.115 slams
37. Novak Djokovic- 53 weeks and 5 slams
38. Mats Wilander- 20 weeks and 7 slams
39. Sidney Smith, 0 weeks and 8.5 slams
40. Boris Becker- 32 weeks and 6 slams
41. Jim Courier- 58 weeks and 4 slams
42. Herbert Lawford- 26 weeks and 6.165 slams
43. Lleyton Hewitt- 80 weeks and 2 slams
44. Frank Sedgman- 26 weeks and 6.13 slams
45. Willoughby Hamilton- 52 weeks and 4 slams
46. Pancho Segura- 52 weeks and 3.005 slams
47. Hans Nusslein- 0 weeks and 6.935 slams
48. Maurice McLoughlin- 52 weeks and 2.665 slams
49. Dick Williams- 52 weeks and 2.665 slams
50. Frank Hadow- 52 weeks and 2.5 slams
51. Spencer Gore- 52 weeks and 2.5 slams
52. Arthur Gore- 26 weeks and 4.33 slams
53. Gustavo Kuerten- 43 weeks and 3 slams
54. Arthur Ashe- 27 weeks and 3.875 slams
55. Tony Trabert- 0 weeks and 5.665 slams
56. Stan Smith- 43 weeks and 2 slams
57. Robert Wrenn- 17 weeks and 4 slams
58. Guillermo Vilas- 14 weeks and 4 slams
59. Ilie Nastase- 40 weeks and 2 slams
60. Gerald Patterson- 26 weeks and 3 slams
61. Mal Whitman- 26 weeks and 3 slams
62. Frank Parker- 0 weeks and 4.25 slams
63. Richard Sears- 0 weeks and 4 slams
64. Jean Borotra- 0 weeks and 3.733 slams
65. Ernest Lewis- 17 weeks and 2 slams
66. Manolo Santana- 0 weeks and 3.105 slams
67. James Anderson- 0 weeks and 3 slams
68. Oliver Campbell- 0 weeks and 3 slams
69. Jan Kodes- 0 weeks and 3 slams
70. Adrian Quist- 0 weeks and 2.825 slams
71. Ashley Cooper- 0 weeks and 2.82 slams
72. Vinnie Richards- 0 weeks and 2.733 slams
73. Marat Safin- 9 weeks and 2 slams
74. Karel Kozeluh- 0 weeks and 2.563 slams
75. Joe Hunt- 0 weeks and 2.5 slams
76. Yevgeny Kafelnikov- 6 weeks and 2 slams
77. Jaroslav Drobny- 0 weeks and 2.32 slams
78. Wilberforce Eaves- 17 weeks and 1 slam
79. Neale Fraser- 0 weeks and 2.22 slams
80. Alex Olmedo- 0 weeks and 2.19 slams
81. Patrick Rafter- 1 week and 2 slams
82. Ted Schroeder- 0 weeks and 2.04 slams
83. Andy Roddick- 13 weeks and 1 slam
84. Sergei Bruguera- 0 weeks and 2 slams
85. Johan Kriek- 0 weeks and 2 slams
86. Harold Mahoney- 0 weeks and 2 slams
87. Richard Richardson- 0 weeks and 2 slams
88. Harry Grove- 0 weeks and 2 slams
89. Henry Slocum- 0 weeks and 2 slams
90. Don McNeill- 0 weeks and 1.915 slams
91. Juan Carlos Ferrero- 8 weeks and 1 slam
92. Vic Seixas- 0 weeks and 1.57 slams
93. Fred Stolle- 0 weeks and 1.57 slams
94. John Bromwich- 0 weeks and 1.535 slams
95. Gottfried Von Cramm- 0 weeks and 1.535 slams
96. Budge Patty- 0 weeks and 1.5 slams
97. Vere Goold- 0 weeks and 1.5 slams
98. Dick Savitt- 0 weeks and 1.5 slams
99. Mervyn Rose- 0 weeks and 1.485 slams
100. Nicola Pietrangeli- 0 weeks and 1.47 slams
101. Thomas Muster- 6 weeks and 1 slam
102. Mal Anderson- 0 weeks and 1.44 slams
103. William Laurentz-0 weeks and 1.165 slams
104. Holcombe Ward- 0 weeks and 1.165 slams
105. Beals Wright- 0 weeks and 1.165 slams
106. Carlos Moya- 2 weeks and 1 slam
107. Andy Murray- 0 weeks and 1 slam
108. Michael Chang- 0 weeks and 1 slam
109. Goran Ivanisevic- 0 weeks and 1 slam
110. Vitas Gerulaitis- 0 weeks and 1 slam
111. Michael Stich- 0 weeks and 1 slam
112. Pat Cash- 0 weeks and 1 slam
113. Roscoe Tanner- 0 weeks and 1 slam
114. Manuel Orantes- 0 weeks and 1 slam
115. Andres Gimeno- 0 weeks and 1 slam
116. Petr Korda- 0 weeks and 1 slam
117. Richard Krajicek- 0 weeks and 1 slam
118. Adriano Pannatta- 0 weeks and 1 slam
119. Mark Edmondson- 0 weeks and 1 slam
120. Juan Martin Del Potro- 0 weeks and 1 slam
121. Yannick Noah- 0 weeks and 1 slam
122. Thomas Johansson- 0 weeks and 1 slam
123. Andres Gomez- 0 weeks and 1 slam
124. Albert Costa- 0 weeks and 1 slam
125. Brian Teacher- 0 weeks and 1 slam
126. Gaston Gaudio- 0 weeks and 1 slam
127. Jack Hawkes- 0 weeks and 1 slam
128. Andre Gobert- 0 weeks and 1 slam
129. Algernon Kingscote- 0 weeks and 1 slam
130. Frank Riseley- 0 weeks and 1 slam
131. Bill Clothier- 0 weeks and 1 slam
132. James Cecil Parke- 0 weeks and 1 slam
133. Otto Froitzheim- 0 weeks and 1 slam
134. Wilberforce Eaves- 0 weeks and 1 slam
135. James Dwight- 0 weeks and 1 slam
136. Fred Hovey- 0 weeks and 1 slam
137. Herbert Wilberforce- 0 weeks and 1 slam
138. Donald Stewart- 0 weeks and 1 slam
139. John Colin Gregory- 0 weeks and 0.9 slams
140. Dinny Pails- 0 weeks and 0.875 slams
141. Bill Bowrey- 0 weeks and 0.875 slams
142. Bob Falkenburg- 0 weeks and 0.875 slams
143. Jozsef Asboth- 0 weeks and 0.875 slams
144. Gar Moon- 0 weeks and 0.83 slams
145. Johnny Doeg- 0 weeks and 0.83 slams
146. Sydney Wodd- 0 weeks and 0.83 slams
147. Martin Plaa- 0 weeks and 0.83 slams
148. Yvon Petra- 0 weeks and 0.785 slams
149. Butch Buchholz- 0 weeks and 0.785 slams
150. Ken McGregor- 0 weeks and 0.785 slams
151. Tony Roche- 0 weeks and 0.785 slams
152. Marcel Bernard- 0 weeks and 0.785 slams
153. Art Larsen- 0 weeks and 0.75 slams
154. Chuck McKinley- 0 weeks and 0.75 slams
155. Rafael Osuna- 0 weeks and 0.75 slams
156. Wilmer Allison- 0 weeks and 0.75 slams
157. Henner Henkel- 0 weeks and 0.75 slams
158. Vivian McGrath- 0 weeks and 0.75 slams
159. Sven Davidson- 0 weeks and 0.72 slams
160. Marcelo Rios- 6 weeks and 0 slams
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:39 PM   #1160
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

Finally, I can exhale.

Now, for the coming AO, and for the #1 battle with Fed and Djokovic:

Federer needs 6 more weeks at #1 or 1 more slam to pass Laver for #2.
If Djokovic wins the AO and gets #1 for another 17 weeks to get to 70 weeks, he will get to #32 all time.
If Murray wins the AO, he will jump up to #84 of all time.
If Nadal can miraculously get back and wins the AO, he will get up to #19, one spot. Nadal needs weeks at #1 more than anything.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:42 PM   #1161
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

Yeah, bring the old one back I think.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:45 PM   #1162
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

No.
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Nadal of course. He and Djokovic are by far the most likeable members in top 4.

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As a knowledgable tennis fan (unlike some people here), I can tell you exactly that. There are tennis players who have problems with playing indoor tennis because of the different lights, different sounds etc. compared to outdoors and Nadal is obvioulsy one of those players.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:55 PM   #1163
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

There is too much imprecision here, nothing really official, and a lot of strange approximations from eras lacking a lot of facts. But it's your thread, so this your list, your view on the best players ever, and the effort is to be appreciated.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:59 PM   #1164
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

This is too formulaic... The whole order is screwed up imho...
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:03 PM   #1165
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

Murray should be much higher. Also how do you get 1.73647364846458374577 slams or whatever?
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:07 PM   #1166
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

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Yeah, bring the old one back I think.
Sorry.

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No.
Yes.

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There is too much imprecision here, nothing really official, and a lot of strange approximations from eras lacking a lot of facts. But it's your thread, so this your list, your view on the best players ever, and the effort is to be appreciated.


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This is too formulaic... The whole order is screwed up imho...
Care to propose an alternative?

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Murray should be much higher. Also how do you get 1.73647364846458374577 slams or whatever?
Murray is exactly where he deserves to be. Besides, he is not even the highest ranked Murray

The fractional slams come from the pre open era. Some years had, for example, 9 slams, where each slam win would only count as 0.44 of a slam. It is all explained in the OP.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:09 PM   #1167
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

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Care to propose an alternative?
Your old way...

Most people don't care about players who fluked a slam The result of the new formula is having players like Gaudio ahead of Rios.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:12 PM   #1168
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

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Your old way...

Most people don't care about players who fluked a slam The result of the new formula is having players like Gaudio ahead of Rios.
Eh, it felt incomplete, my old list. I felt as though there was more to be known. Only 55, and my stats were not as in-depth. Now, I feel at ease, my work complete. People may disagree, especially the Fed fans who can't fathom him being anywhere other than #1, but hey, the #1 way to know you've done a good job is when people disagree and express disgust. Gaudio ought to be ahead of Rios, imo.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:13 PM   #1169
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

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Murray is exactly where he deserves to be. Besides, he is not even the highest ranked Murray

The fractional slams come from the pre open era. Some years had, for example, 9 slams, where each slam win would only count as 0.44 of a slam. It is all explained in the OP.
Below Moya? Ferrero? A buch of clowns I've never heard of?
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #1170
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Default Re: Professor Groove's Top 160 Players Ever (Fed- 3, Nadal- 20, Nole- 37, Murray- 107

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Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
Eh, it felt incomplete, my old list. Only 55, and my stats were not as in-depth. Gaudio ought to be ahead of Rios, imo.
I think it was fine.

You think so? Imho Gaudio was a complete fluke... Do you think unheard players such as "Butch Buchholz" should go ahead of Rios?
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Freakyman is a mythical figure who went bat shit insane during the 2012 ACC and got himself permbanned and the whole ACC with him.

He then forced an unban by sleeping with the entire moderation crew and these days you can see him post in a mellowed down version, while being under the influence of strong medication.
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