Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray? - Page 3 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 10-10-2012, 07:50 PM   #31
country flag DJ Soup
Registered User
 
DJ Soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,023
DJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond reputeDJ Soup has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians/defenders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
You said this after my post, so I'm not sure if this is some roundabout snipe at my comment, but I'll clarify my original post. It's not a matter of being confused about the title, or the topic itself, it's a matter of addressing differences between defenders and tacticians.

A "brilliant" defender does not necessarily make for a formidable tactician, and the reverse is true as well. Likewise, I don't think people treat either style the same, so they really make for different conversations. You should probably stop grouping them together.
The epitome of tactician is Nalbandian. Even more than Federer, because Roger has a more formidable FH, while Nalbandian has 2 solid sides that can hit commanding strokes and create situations that can place him in advantageous opportunities during a point.
DJ Soup is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 10-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #32
country flag Jverweij
Registered User
 
Jverweij's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Age: 32
Posts: 3,919
Jverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond reputeJverweij has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

I actually think Murray is one of the most talented guys out there. The guy can do everything with a tennisball. This is why his defensive attitudes puzzles me. It really costs him matches. At Wimbledon he seemed to have altered his strategy abit more towards the offensive. His success has improved ever since he started playing more offensively.

As for the question in the topic. Pretty much what Lenders said.
Jverweij is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:14 PM   #33
country flag DrJules
Registered User
 
DrJules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,594
DrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers seen more highly than defenders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
it's because Murry your lucky one slam wonder (who should gratefully thank to Nole for donating that slam btw) will never be as good or popular as Djokovic, so you'll keep crying and boring us to death with your silly posts and silly threads, lol. oops, did I just say this? so proud of myself.
Murray may never be as good a Djokovic, but I dispute the popularity comment. Also hard to call a 5 times GS finalist (1 win and 4 RU) a lucky one slam winner.

Murray, as expected, is more popular at Wimbledon, but I note had far more of the support during the US Open final, and it will be interesting to see the support at the AO in January 2013.

If Murray was lucky to win US Open 2012, then that would certainly apply, even more, to Djokovic in 2011, when he survived being 2 match points down in a Federer serving game. Djokovic did very well to extend the match to 5 sets in the US Open final, but was spent in the 5th set. In fact, Murray came nearer to beating Djokovic at AO 2012, than Djokovic to beating Murray at US Open 2012.

Some of your comments in this post may come accross as silly.
__________________
The current greatness league of active players in order of achievements to date (a factual comparison rather than fan biased assessment):

Federer 17 GS, 6 Year End Masters, 22 Master Series.
Nadal 14 GS, 0 Year End Masters, 27 Master Series, 1 Olympic Gold.
Djokovic 7 GS, 3 Year End Masters, 19 Master Series.


DrJules is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:18 PM   #34
country flag rocketassist
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,682
rocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers seen more highly than defenders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
Murray may never be as good a Djokovic, but I dispute the popularity comment. Also hard to call a 5 times GS finalist (1 win and 4 RU) a lucky one slam winner.

Murray, as expected, is more popular at Wimbledon, but I note had far more of the support during the US Open final, and it will be interesting to see the support at the AO in January 2013.

If Murray was lucky to win US Open 2012, then that would certainly apply, even more, to Djokovic in 2011, when he survived being 2 match points down in a Federer serving game. Djokovic did very well to extend the match to 5 sets in the US Open final, but was spent in the 5th set. In fact, Murray came nearer to beating Djokovic at AO 2012, than Djokovic to beating Murray at US Open 2012.

Some of your comments in this post may come accross as silly.
He's joking.
rocketassist is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:19 PM   #35
country flag romismak
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 23
Posts: 3,630
romismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond reputeromismak has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

I thin it is because of ability to win match - i mean if balbbasher has his day - is in ZONE can beat anybody, + most fans i think prefer offensive tennis, but agree that sometimes even boring pushing - defennse is better than stupid brainless ballbashing.
romismak is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:23 PM   #36
country flag Arcaelus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Arcaelus is on a distinguished road
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Murray himself used to be more of a pusher, as he has said countless times, where he would just back away from the baseline and get the ball back in play, I think a pusher is more akin to what querrey does with his backhand, where he just guides it back without putting much if any weight behind the shot, a reason why nishikori had so much trouble with him last night.
A pusher doesn't win when his opponent is having a good day most of the time, and Murray has to get rid of his reputation of doing that, instead of his new more aggressive style of play. Federer, the tactition is much more highly regarded than Tsonga for example, so in Murrays case its simply his reputation which leads him to be more lowly regarded
Arcaelus is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:25 PM   #37
country flag DrJules
Registered User
 
DrJules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,594
DrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond reputeDrJules has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers seen more highly than defenders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
He's joking.
Never sure on MTF.

So many are finding the idea of Murray "the pusher" (unusual tag given the number of winners he hits in so many of his matches) being a GS winner unacceptable.
__________________
The current greatness league of active players in order of achievements to date (a factual comparison rather than fan biased assessment):

Federer 17 GS, 6 Year End Masters, 22 Master Series.
Nadal 14 GS, 0 Year End Masters, 27 Master Series, 1 Olympic Gold.
Djokovic 7 GS, 3 Year End Masters, 19 Master Series.


DrJules is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:27 PM   #38
country flag MIMIC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 10,807
MIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Winning the match > trying not to lose it

Also, "tacticians"? He lures you to the net or will otherwise bore you to sleep.

Last edited by MIMIC : 10-10-2012 at 08:34 PM.
MIMIC is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:38 PM   #39
country flag Alex999
Registered User
 
Alex999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kanata
Posts: 9,247
Alex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond reputeAlex999 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers seen more highly than defenders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
Murray may never be as good a Djokovic, but I dispute the popularity comment. Also hard to call a 5 times GS finalist (1 win and 4 RU) a lucky one slam winner.

Murray, as expected, is more popular at Wimbledon, but I note had far more of the support during the US Open final, and it will be interesting to see the support at the AO in January 2013.

If Murray was lucky to win US Open 2012, then that would certainly apply, even more, to Djokovic in 2011, when he survived being 2 match points down in a Federer serving game. Djokovic did very well to extend the match to 5 sets in the US Open final, but was spent in the 5th set. In fact, Murray came nearer to beating Djokovic at AO 2012, than Djokovic to beating Murray at US Open 2012.

Some of your comments in this post may come accross as silly.
yup, I was just sarcastic as this thread is simply silly plus Sap has no clue what he is talking about. Basically, I couldn't care less.

and where is Mandy more popular? in Scotland la la land maybe. Even Sap would agree. China is the most important country in the world, and Chinese love Nole, end of dissuasion.

Last edited by Alex999 : 10-10-2012 at 08:44 PM.
Alex999 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:40 PM   #40
country flag GSMnadal
Registered User
 
GSMnadal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Posts: 16,290
GSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond reputeGSMnadal has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
Winning the match > trying not to lose it

Also, "tacticians"? He lures you to the net or will otherwise bore you to sleep.
Not losing = WINNING
__________________
RAFAEL NADAL

'Rafael Nadal is the best ever' - John McEnroe

1 AO - 9 RG - 2 W - 2 USO
GSMnadal is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:43 PM   #41
country flag Looner
Registered User
 
Looner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,262
Looner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond reputeLooner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Attack>defence in terms of entertainment factor and marketability as well as crowd support. Therefore, ball bashers>mug pushers.
__________________

The "Who plays tennis?" thread


On beating weak era players in finals of slams
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
Say what you want about Federer playing Baghdatis and Gonzo in AO finals... But at least he won them
On patriotism and the DC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crustaceok View Post
Barbados is in the same division as Spain. Unbelievable.
Looner is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:00 PM   #42
country flag MIMIC
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 10,807
MIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond reputeMIMIC has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
Not losing = WINNING
In the event of a walkover, nobody lost....and nobody won, either.

By "winning", I mean controlling the match. Drawing a zillion of unforced errors does not demonstrate control.
MIMIC is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:19 PM   #43
country flag Sanya
Registered User
 
Sanya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Age: 23
Posts: 2,351
Sanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond reputeSanya has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Tempo and power decides a lot. It`s very hard to do the best shots with really little time, big speed. Do you really think that Murray wouldn`t like to hit like Delpo? It`s not that simple. You must be really good not only to hit forehand, bit make it deep, sometimes with no time for preparation, accurate.

One of the reasons why Dimitrov who has a lot of similar shots in technique with GOAT can`t win many matches - instead of Rogie he needs more time to prepare them, in rallies he makes mistakes quicker, can`t handle the offered tempo and so on.

I mean if you think you will see that it`s not that easy to "ballbash" as someone thinks.
__________________
Gasquet is next №1
Sanya is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:23 PM   #44
country flag Saberq
Registered User
 
Saberq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,983
Saberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond reputeSaberq has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Mandy tactician?LOL......worst pusher in top 50......disgusting player
Saberq is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:24 PM   #45
country flag MaxPower
Registered User
 
MaxPower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Age: 30
Posts: 7,028
MaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond reputeMaxPower has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Why are ballbashers more highly regarded than tacticians like Murray?

Because ball-bashing done right is more impressive and harder to achieve a high level in. Need perfect timing or it's UE-galore. Pushing and moonballing is all about having margins and low amount of UEs.

Even at amateur level it's kinda lame with the more extreme pushers. But if someone did a few Del Potro-like shots a crowd would quickly gather.


Can compare to other sports like boxing. Who would people rather watch? A tactician that spends round after round trying to avoid hits while countering getting points to win by decision, or someone who goes for a knockout even if it can cost him the match?
MaxPower is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios