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Old 10-10-2012, 08:13 AM   #76
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Default Re: Tsonga: Referees always favor top 4

Of course the referees will favor those who can pull in crowds. other than the top 4, currently there is no one that can come close to them in popularity. The referee will always go with them and locals.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:24 AM   #77
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Default Re: Tsonga: Referees always favor top 4

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
It doesn't matter whether or not 4 players are being benefitted at the expense of everyone else? Can hardly think of anything more relevant.

And good that Jo made such a comment, someone has to. Shame Berdych and especially Ferrer didn't have the balls to do so after getting screwed in the USO semis this year to increase the likelihood of a 'Big 4' final.
Well, I think it's difficult to decide when it's appropriate to make comments and when it's better to shut up. The problem is, if you make such comments after losing, they will inevitably be perceived as excuses brought up by a frustrated loser.
But at the same time, when you look at Ferru who has this policy of never giving any excuse at all no matter the circumstances... Yes sometimes I do wish he would speak up and defend himself. I think one of the reasons they sometimes treat him very poorly is also that they know he won't complain. But the problem is, his choice of never complaining, which is obviously deliberate, only has value if he sticks to it constantly.

So I don't know what the right attitude is. Maybe several players would need to get together to denounce the system, then it would be more powerful. They could still denounce them collectively as sore losers but that would be more difficult.


Sorry if it's off-topic, but it reminds me of controversies in ice-skating (which is worse since it relies entirely on judges). One of my favourite couples in ice dance was from Lithuania, and they were shamlessly undermarked for their entire career. They were always extremely classy about it and almost never complained, even though their results were becoming increasingly outrageous and many observers were beginning to notice it.
Then, during the Salt Lake Olympics, it was even worse than usual (because that time, two of the couples ranked ahead of them had actually fallen heavily) and Lithuania filed an official complaint.
But the problem is, the system and the power of the media make it so, that there is also a double standard when judging complaints. So while the Canadians, backed by the American media, were making an incredible amount of fuss about losing to the Russians (which I think was not unfair at all), made sure all hell broke loose and successfully got a reversal of the jugding, no one anywhere paid any attention to the Lithuanian dancers.
In the end, what happened is that later in the same season, the judges repeated the offence, and that time, it was such a cruel blow to them that they did openly show their discontent and spoke up during press conferences.
What was extraordinary was that other competitors initiated a petition complaining about the judging in general, and the way this couple in particular had been treated throughout their career, and all the other competitors (except the ones that had benefitted from the judges' decision) signed it.
And there was a result: because of this (and other scandals), they changed the system. I'm not sure it's really much different now, to be honest, but at least something was done.

So, possibly, collective action is where the answer lies? If there really is a system protecting the Big 4, then maybe what is needed is a petition or a complaint by several players, not just one, in order to give it more credibility?
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:44 PM   #78
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Default Re: Tsonga: Referees always favor top 4

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
Umpires are starting to do that more often: award the point to the server even if you get a racket on it. Like I said before, it happened to Djokovic at the U.S. Open.

I have no problem with it. 9 times out of 10, the "out" call did not disrupt the returner and the umpire is just giving the returner the benefit of the doubt by replaying the point; they're basically placating the players. The only issue is that this call isn't made consistently across ALL umpires. But I have seen the call being made more often in the last few months.
yes, I agree with that, I like that umpires take this risk to call it this way if they do feel it, and Lahyani is typically a guy who takes more risks than other umpires.

Actually I would like umpires to do it also in rallies when there's a bad call : especially if it didn't change the outcome of the point if the ball was in rather than out, they should say that the challenge is useless rather than replaying the point. I saw this situation in a Querrey-Lu's match and I thought it was ridiculous that they replayed the point because Querrey easily won the point anyway.

And I agree with you that the main problem is that the umpiring is not consistent accross umpires (except to "forget" sanctioning wasted time against Nadal, which is clearly a "harmonized" rule).
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:50 PM   #79
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Default Re: Tsonga: Referees always favor top 4

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Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
Would a lower ranked player be allowed as much time between serving points as Nadal and Djokovic often take; I am not sure they would. .
you can be sure they wouldn't : I remember an article where many players were questioned on that and it was obvious for them : there's a "special allowance" for Nadal on that case, but they can be sanctioned anyway.

I still remember when Cilic got a warning for time wasting just before a second serve against Fed on breakpoint against him in the US Open. And he had not taken so much time !

And in such cases, of course, players other than the top-4 tend to happen to think that they're not ruled the same as the others for every decision, not just time-wasting. It's just a natural process, that's why Tsonga is not the only one thinking that
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:07 PM   #80
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Default Re: Tsonga: Referees always favor top 4

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Originally Posted by Sophitia36 View Post
Well, I think it's difficult to decide when it's appropriate to make comments and when it's better to shut up. The problem is, if you make such comments after losing, they will inevitably be perceived as excuses brought up by a frustrated loser.
Tsonga doesn't think about those reactions, he just says his mind sincerely, and deal with it.

As Fed once said :

Quote:
For his part, Federer said he sometimes regretted his answers and how they were interpreted. But for the most-interviewed athlete in a star-driven sport, “that’s part of who we are,” he said.

“We are normal people,” Federer said. “If you’re not allowed to speak your mind, what’s the point?”
(source : http://http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/sports/tennis/roger-federer-takes-on-news-media-interviews-like-pro.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=tennis

Besides, it was only one point in his interview, he also praised Djokovic very high (hence also the "resignation" comments some people made, but well you can be sure Tsonga will fight next he faces one top-4, just as Berdych did in the US Open after saying some "resigned" comments), the main problem with this kind of comments is rather that people extract one little point from a whole interview and speak as if it's the only thing he said and insisted on saying. Just no. He said it and skipped to something else, that's all.
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