In-depth analysis of matchups/matchup issues between ATP players - Page 4 - MensTennisForums.com

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Nadal - Gasquet H2H makes me gonna cry.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Can anyone explain Gasquet 6-0 Simon, with all blowouts? I always try to avoid matches with those two pushers, but this H2H strikes me as very weird, there's bound to be some matchup issue. Two players of roughly the same level (Simon probably a bit better), somewhat similar gamestyles...
No.

Because Gasquet likes to angle the ball, and hit with lot of spin. Simon hits hard, but he kind of "feeds" off power.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:17 PM   #48
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Honestly, the Simon-Gasquet match is more mental than anything I think. He's just not very good against other French players. The Simon-Murray match-up is the one where Gilles just has no chance because Murray is essentially a better version of himself plus has more variety. I feel like Gilles has a much better chance of beating the other three of the top four.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:19 PM   #49
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Good points about the Gasquet vs Simon matchup.

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Originally Posted by HKz View Post
Lenders trying way too hard at this, as if everything can be explained in tangible things. Again, he is giving technical aspects way too much credit in several matchups. The mental gain/loss between two players explains much of the lopsided H2Hs here. Not saying there technical aspects of a player's game don't dictacte a H2H, but certainly much should be attributed to mental strength, and not to mention surface variation.
Most things can be explained by technical aspects though. For instance, would you say Federer's mental issues against Nadal are not more important than the matchup issue. If anything, they're a result of it. Federer can't play his normal game vs Rafa, who always makes him uncomfortable on court, and that plays with his head of course.

By the same token, Berdych doesn't have mental issues vs Nadal just because, he has them because Rafa crushed him time and time again even when he (Berdych) was playing well.

Surface variation could be an issue (although surfaces are more homogenized than ever before), but most of the matchups I've analysed are of one player completely owning the other across all surfaces.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:51 PM   #50
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Someone to explain the Fed-Simon matchup to me. There's no reason why Simon should really test Federer.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:53 PM   #51
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Someone to explain the Fed-Simon matchup to me. There's no reason why Simon should really test Federer.
Would love to hear about this one too. I have some (loose) ideas, but really can't quite put my finger on why Simon causes Federer so many problems, would love someone knowledgeable who watched all their matches (I didn't) to try and explain this.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:38 PM   #52
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Someone to explain the Fed-Simon matchup to me. There's no reason why Simon should really test Federer.
Simon got two wins over Fed being on peak of his play. Simulteneously Federe was maybe in his worst form ever after becoming top player since 2003 till then, his confidence was near zero after Wimbledon and he had big problems with back during WTF. Though AO-10 obviously showed that match-up issue is there too.

I guess first or all the main reason in no free point against frenchman. You can see plenty of 10-15 disappears from Federer during almost all his matches, but multiplying it by opponents mistakes it doesn`t cost him a lot. Unlike a lot Gilles on this stretch takes all that possible. Never missing a lot in their matches he became real wall giving Rogie a chance to beat himself.

Simon is great counter-puncher and he can easily use the speed bighitters give to ball. Problem for Fed - he must either decide points quick not giving to Simon finding his rhytm on baseline or he faces the situation where in neutral rallies he plays primarily from backhand wing shot after shot having no light variants to finish point in one shot.

Simon`s game makes pressure on Fed - he realises that he must take match away 100% himself, no gifts. It leads to more agressive play, logically - higher level of EUs ig Peakere isn`t on court only. I wouldn`t say that Simon`s return of serve frustrate Fed, this his weapon isn`t beaten, but Gilles reliability on baseline overall - is. Also I should add quality of frenchman`s passing shots - he is fifth-sixth best player in this department, IMO.

Smth like that.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:00 PM   #53
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanya View Post
Simon got two wins over Fed being on peak of his play. Simulteneously Federe was maybe in his worst form ever after becoming top player since 2003 till then, his confidence was near zero after Wimbledon and he had big problems with back during WTF. Though AO-10 obviously showed that match-up issue is there too.

I guess first or all the main reason in no free point against frenchman. You can see plenty of 10-15 disappears from Federer during almost all his matches, but multiplying it by opponents mistakes it doesn`t cost him a lot. Unlike a lot Gilles on this stretch takes all that possible. Never missing a lot in their matches he became real wall giving Rogie a chance to beat himself.

Simon is great counter-puncher and he can easily use the speed bighitters give to ball. Problem for Fed - he must either decide points quick not giving to Simon finding his rhytm on baseline or he faces the situation where in neutral rallies he plays primarily from backhand wing shot after shot having no light variants to finish point in one shot.

Simon`s game makes pressure on Fed - he realises that he must take match away 100% himself, no gifts. It leads to more agressive play, logically - higher level of EUs ig Peakere isn`t on court only. I wouldn`t say that Simon`s return of serve frustrate Fed, this his weapon isn`t beaten, but Gilles reliability on baseline overall - is. Also I should add quality of frenchman`s passing shots - he is fifth-sixth best player in this department, IMO.

Smth like that.
Yes, but that doesn't explain why Simon should give Federer trouble when another 'grinder' - Ferrer - who also doesn't give away free points, also is rock solid from the baseline, and also feeds off pace is absolutely owned by Federer...?
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #54
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Yes, but that doesn't explain why Simon should give Federer trouble when another 'grinder' - Ferrer - who also doesn't give away free points, also is rock solid from the baseline, and also feeds off pace is absolutely owned by Federer...?
I think Gilles manages to surprise Federer with his random injections of pace during the rally. Simon can flatten out his shots more than Ferrer and when he was at his best was able to hit some pretty impressive winners against the top guys especially on the run. Ferrer plays a more grinding style with much more topspin than Gilles, they're not really that similar. That's my guess but I don't really know.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

I have to congratulate the OP here. There are not many quality threads in GM but this one almost manages it


Quote:
Originally Posted by out_grinder View Post
Yes, but that doesn't explain why Simon should give Federer trouble when another 'grinder' - Ferrer - who also doesn't give away free points, also is rock solid from the baseline, and also feeds off pace is absolutely owned by Federer...?

IMO: Ferrer hits harder than Simon so Federer can use his pace from the baseline better than he can with Simon. Against Simon Fed has to make the pace himself which is more difficult for him.
Simon also has a better defense and passing shots than Ferrer so that makes him more dangerous for Fed e.g. when Fed tries to attack.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:53 PM   #56
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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I have to congratulate the OP here. There are not many quality threads in GM but this one almost manages it
Thanks

Why almost though? What is missing?
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:01 AM   #57
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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Thanks

Why almost though? What is missing?

My presense and my highly insightful and knowledgable posts were missing but that problem is solved now
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:53 AM   #58
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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My presense and my highly insightful and knowledgable posts were missing but that problem is solved now
Ah well, thanks for 'saving' my thread and giving it the definite seal of quality
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:59 AM   #59
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

can you please analyse Marinko Matosevic vs Donald Young...? (4-0; 8 sets to 1)
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:00 AM   #60
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Default Re: Worst matchup issues between top (10/20) players

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can you please analyse Marinko Matosevic vs Donald Young...? (4-0; 8 sets to 1)
That's an easy one: one mug is slighly better than the other mug.
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