More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1? - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

View Poll Results: More important?

Slams 44 88.00%
Weeks at #1 6 12.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

Old 10-06-2012, 02:57 AM   #16
country flag rocketassist
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,682
rocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
And Gaudio won a GS with no #1, and Rios was #1 with no GS so...?
Rios won several masters in addition to this #1. Gaudio only reached one TMS final so he didn't back his success up, Rios did.

IMO weeks at #1 only comes into play if two players have very identical careers (slams, masters wins)

For example Roddick and Murray's careers are pretty much dead even, yet I think at this stage it's R-Andy who has the slight edge due to his #1 ranking. But if M-Andy gets even 1 week at the summit, he will pass him straight away.
rocketassist is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 10-06-2012, 03:00 AM   #17
country flag Freak3yman84
Registered User
 
Freak3yman84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11,205
Freak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Rios won several masters in addition to this #1. Gaudio only reached one TMS final so he didn't back his success up, Rios did.

IMO weeks at #1 only comes into play if two players have very identical careers (slams, masters wins)

For example Roddick and Murray's careers are pretty much dead even, yet I think at this stage it's R-Andy who has the slight edge due to his #1 ranking. But if M-Andy gets even 1 week at the summit, he will pass him straight away.
But that's only due to MS titles and not GS's. Both have 1 GS and 4 RU's so it doesn't really help the GS > #1 argument.
__________________
Oh Sheesh Y'all, 'Twas A Dream

Number of Times I've Cried Over Sucking at FITD: All but four

W Samarkand Singles W Charlottesville W Lermontov W ATP Bastad W Bol Fut (w/MathMul) W Cordenons (w/dinkulpus)

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Sweet Cleopatra View Post
I like how you make me appreciate my life by comparing it to yours then I take a deep breath and say: Thank God..
Freak3yman84 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:03 AM   #18
country flag Honestly
Registered User
 
Honestly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,939
Honestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond reputeHonestly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

The two goes hand in hand. Rios was an exception in many ways.
__________________
BOAT
4-1-7-5-6
Career slam
302 weeks at #1
7 Wimbledon titles
10 consecutive slam F, 23 consecutive slam SF, 36 consecutive slam QF
3/4 slam titles on 3 occasions, 4/4 slam finals on 3 occasions
4 consecutive Laureus sportsman of the year awards

Quickly dumbtards, hand out bad reps so you can bad rep me again. It's been almost 24 hours!
Honestly is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:06 AM   #19
country flag rocketassist
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,682
rocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
But that's only due to MS titles and not GS's. Both have 1 GS and 4 RU's so it doesn't really help the GS > #1 argument.
1 GS, Olympic gold and 8 MS plus #1 is ahead of 1 GS, 4 MS and #1 even if he had less weeks than Roddick did.

Unless there's an outrageous amount of weeks at the top e.g. Lendl's 270, then it's no contest for me.
rocketassist is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:08 AM   #20
country flag Freak3yman84
Registered User
 
Freak3yman84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11,205
Freak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
1 GS, Olympic gold and 8 MS plus #1 is ahead of 1 GS, 4 MS and #1 even if he had less weeks than Roddick did.

Unless there's an outrageous amount of weeks at the top e.g. Lendl's 270, then it's no contest for me.
But that has nothing to do with GS > #1 Murray only goes ahead by MS and Olympic Gold so it's off the topic of GS's.
__________________
Oh Sheesh Y'all, 'Twas A Dream

Number of Times I've Cried Over Sucking at FITD: All but four

W Samarkand Singles W Charlottesville W Lermontov W ATP Bastad W Bol Fut (w/MathMul) W Cordenons (w/dinkulpus)

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Sweet Cleopatra View Post
I like how you make me appreciate my life by comparing it to yours then I take a deep breath and say: Thank God..
Freak3yman84 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:20 AM   #21
country flag rocketassist
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 25,682
rocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond reputerocketassist has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
But that has nothing to do with GS > #1 Murray only goes ahead by MS and Olympic Gold so it's off the topic of GS's.
Well I say 2 slams and 15 weeks at #1 is better than 1 slam and 60 weeks at #1.
rocketassist is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:30 AM   #22
country flag Freak3yman84
Registered User
 
Freak3yman84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11,205
Freak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Well I say 2 slams and 15 weeks at #1 is better than 1 slam and 60 weeks at #1.
...But 1 fluke GS < 10 weeks at #1. It just depends on how you look at it. IMO you have to be more well-rounded for #1 where as you have to play 2 good fluke weeks for a GS. There are far more fluke GS champs then there are fluke #1's.
__________________
Oh Sheesh Y'all, 'Twas A Dream

Number of Times I've Cried Over Sucking at FITD: All but four

W Samarkand Singles W Charlottesville W Lermontov W ATP Bastad W Bol Fut (w/MathMul) W Cordenons (w/dinkulpus)

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Sweet Cleopatra View Post
I like how you make me appreciate my life by comparing it to yours then I take a deep breath and say: Thank God..
Freak3yman84 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:44 AM   #23
country flag Mark Lenders
Registered User
 
Mark Lenders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 13,096
Mark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond reputeMark Lenders has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak3yman84 View Post
...But 1 fluke GS < 10 weeks at #1. It just depends on how you look at it. IMO you have to be more well-rounded for #1 where as you have to play 2 good fluke weeks for a GS. There are far more fluke GS champs then there are fluke #1's.
Actually it's far easier to fluke a #1 ranking than a Slam. In order to win a Slam, you have to win seven best of five matches against the best players in the world, you can't BS your way.

Meanwhile, the ATP ranking system isn't very different from the WTA one that generated some truly abhorrent #1s. You can easily be #1 without being the best player in the world as it is far from an objective/reliable measure; you can't BS your way to a Slam title though.
Mark Lenders is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:44 AM   #24
country flag Johnny Groove
Future ATP Star
 
Johnny Groove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Age: 24
Posts: 35,908
Johnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Well I say 2 slams and 15 weeks at #1 is better than 1 slam and 60 weeks at #1.
I dunno bout that one. I'd rather have the 1 slam and 60 weeks. I mean, that over 1 calendar year.
__________________
Respect the Laws of MTF
Brush up on your tennis history, people- Top 101 Tennis Players of all Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
What do you like doing on MTF most?
Reading Johnny Groove threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Johnny blurs the line between grandeur and grandiose
Johnny Groove is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 03:52 AM   #25
country flag Freak3yman84
Registered User
 
Freak3yman84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 11,205
Freak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond reputeFreak3yman84 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Actually it's far easier to fluke a #1 ranking than a Slam. In order to win a Slam, you have to win seven best of five matches against the best players in the world, you can't BS your way.

Meanwhile, the ATP ranking system isn't very different from the WTA one that generated some truly abhorrent #1s. You can easily be #1 without being the best player in the world as it is far from an objective/reliable measure; you can't BS your way to a Slam title though.
Lenders, Lenders, Lenders... Let's start off:
1. You DO NOT always have to play the best players to win a GS... For example, Lleyton Hewitt Wimbledon 2002
R1: Unseeded 30 year old Jonas Bjorkman
R2: Qualifier Gregory Carraz
R3: Unseeded Julian Knowle
R4: Unseeded Mikhail Youzhny
QF: 18th seed Sjeng Schalken
SF: 4th seed Tim Henman (bad record in SF's)
F: 28th seed David Nalbandian

Did Hewitt have to beat the best players to win that? Nope.

2. While the ranking system might not always provide the best player in the world, you have to win a string of matches/tournaments to be ranked at #1 (far more than 7 matches when someone is on a hot streak) It is far more likely to fluke a GS then No. 1 and that is a fact.
__________________
Oh Sheesh Y'all, 'Twas A Dream

Number of Times I've Cried Over Sucking at FITD: All but four

W Samarkand Singles W Charlottesville W Lermontov W ATP Bastad W Bol Fut (w/MathMul) W Cordenons (w/dinkulpus)

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Sweet Cleopatra View Post
I like how you make me appreciate my life by comparing it to yours then I take a deep breath and say: Thank God..
Freak3yman84 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 04:11 AM   #26
country flag Johnny Groove
Future ATP Star
 
Johnny Groove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Age: 24
Posts: 35,908
Johnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

All the players who have ever, in any era, been ranked #1 in the world-

1. Pancho Gonzales- 364 weeks
2. Bill Tilden- 330 weeks
3. Don Budge- 303 weeks
4. Pete Sampras- 312(286) weeks
5. Willie Renshaw- 286 weeks
6. Roger Federer- 260(298+) weeks
7. Rod Laver- 277 weeks
8. Laurie Doherty- 252 weeks
9. Ken Rosewall- 242 weeks
10. Jack Kramer- 234 weeks
11. Ivan Lendl- 156(270) weeks
12. Jimmy Connors- 182(268) weeks
13. William Larned- 199 weeks
14. Ellsworth Vines- 191 weeks
15. Joshua Pim- 173 weeks
16. John McEnroe- 156(170) weeks
17. Bobby Riggs- 156 weeks
18. Henri Cochet- 147 weeks
19. Reggie Doherty- 139 weeks
20. Bjorn Borg- 156(109) weeks
21. Tony Wilding- 130 weeks
22. Wilfred Baddeley- 122 weeks
23. Fred Perry- 121 weeks
24. Ernest Renshaw- 104 weeks
25. Rene Lacoste- 104 weeks
26. John Hartley- 104 weeks
27. Bill Johnston- 104 weeks
28. Lindley Murray- 104 weeks
29. Rafael Nadal- 104(102) weeks
30. Lleyton Hewitt- 104(80) weeks
31. Stefan Edberg- 104(72) weeks
32. Norman Brookes- 78 weeks
33. Andre Agassi- 52(101) weeks
34. John Newcombe- 62(8) weeks
35. Jim Courier- 52(58) weeks
36. Novak Djokovic- 52(53) weeks
37. Maurice McLoughlin- 52 weeks
38. Spencer Gore- 52 weeks
39. Jack Crawford- 52 weeks
40. Pancho Segura- 52 weeks
41. Dick Williams- 52 weeks
42. Frank Hadow- 52 weeks
43. Willoughby Hamilton- 52 weeks
44. Gustavo Kuerten- 52(43) weeks
45. Ilie Nastase- 52(40) weeks
46. Mats Wilander- 52(20) weeks
47. Andy Roddick- 52(13) weeks
48. Boris Becker- 52(12) weeks
49. Arthur Ashe- 52(0) weeks
50. Stan Smith- 43 weeks
51. Gerald Patterson- 26 weeks
52. Herbert Lawford- 26 weeks
53. Frank Sedgman- 26 weeks
54. Arthur Gore- 26 weeks
55. Guillermo Vilas- 26(0) weeks
56. Lew Hoad- 26 weeks
57. Mal Whitman- 26 weeks
58. Ernest Lewis- 17 weeks
59. Wilberforce Eaves- 17 weeks
60. Robert Wrenn- 17 weeks
61. Marat Safin- 9 weeks
62. Juan Carlos Ferrero- 8 weeks
63. Yevgeny Kafelnikov- 6 weeks
64. Thomas Muster- 6 weeks
65. Marcelo Rios- 6 weeks
66. Carlos Moya- 2 weeks
67. Patrick Rafter- 1 week

Should Fed finish 2012 as #1, he'll get up to #3.

Don't think anyone will get close to Pancho G.
__________________
Respect the Laws of MTF
Brush up on your tennis history, people- Top 101 Tennis Players of all Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
What do you like doing on MTF most?
Reading Johnny Groove threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Johnny blurs the line between grandeur and grandiose
Johnny Groove is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 04:13 AM   #27
country flag Chase Visa
Registered User
 
Chase Visa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 4,985
Chase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Slams. The differing systems make #1 comparisons tricky.
__________________
RIP Henry Chinaski. A true MTF legend
Chase Visa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 04:14 AM   #28
country flag Chase Visa
Registered User
 
Chase Visa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Age: 20
Posts: 4,985
Chase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond reputeChase Visa has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

How come Sampras says 312? I thought it was 286?
__________________
RIP Henry Chinaski. A true MTF legend
Chase Visa is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 04:17 AM   #29
country flag Johnny Groove
Future ATP Star
 
Johnny Groove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida
Age: 24
Posts: 35,908
Johnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond reputeJohnny Groove has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

For Open Era players, I counted their YE #1 as if they had been #1 that whole calendar year, and then in parenthesis, their actual weeks according to the computer.

For Pre-1973 players, there was no computer.
__________________
Respect the Laws of MTF
Brush up on your tennis history, people- Top 101 Tennis Players of all Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathaliia View Post
What do you like doing on MTF most?
Reading Johnny Groove threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripwires View Post
Johnny blurs the line between grandeur and grandiose
Johnny Groove is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2012, 06:04 AM   #30
country flag rickcastle
Registered User
 
rickcastle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 934
rickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond reputerickcastle has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: More important for one's GOAT resume: Slams or Time Spent at #1?

Well, we're not talking about the debate of who is the greater player: A slam winner or a #1 ranked player. We are talking about what makes a GOAT, and surely you cannot be the greatest of all time if you cannot be the greatest in your era, it's an inconceivable idea. No greatest of all time would spend record weeks at no. 2 or no. 3.
rickcastle is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios