[Johnny Groove]

I believe that God has a very tough job. We oughta cut him some slack.

[Har-Tru]

Originally Posted by Echoes

For Heaven's sake, the persecution of Christians by the USSR is common knowledge. It was not just about political opponents or Kulaks, many were also killed for spiritual reasons.


They were not the only one, actually and you don't necessary have to be a Communist to be kill in the name of atheism. In 1792 the French Republicans massacred the Vendeans because they just wanted to live their faith. They were atheists and liberals.

Did Stalin kill all those Christian because he was an atheist, or because he was an anti-religious Communist nut?

Is there a logical path that leads from "I don't believe there is a God" to "We should kill all those priests"? There isn't. However, one needs some admirable mental gymnastics not to consider there is a pretty clear path that leads from "I am a Christian" to "homosexuality is an abomination", for instance.

I find it striking though that you feel the need to dig up Cold War dictatorships or late 18th century revolutionary movements to prove your point that atheism is as vile as it gets.

How about here and now? How about the direct correlation between secularism and human development?

In any case, this all comes from the religion-based view of atheism as an ideology. Religion (or communism, since we're at it) are ideologies. Atheism is nothing but the lack of theism. Just as a-astrology, a-dragonism or a-pastafarinism aren't ideologies, atheism isn't one either. There are atheists who are good people and atheists who are bad people, for the simple reason that there are good people and bad people.

[Lopez]

Originally Posted by Johnny Groove

I believe that God has a very tough job. We oughta cut him some slack.

How could any job be tough for an all-powerful being who can make things happen simply by thinking them ?

Har-Tru pwning, as usual.

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by Har-Tru

There are atheists who are good people and atheists who are bad people, for the simple reason that there are good people and bad people.

That applies to people in general, regardless of whether they are religious or not, some people are good, some people are bad.

[Chase Visa]

Not religious.

[Lopez]

Originally Posted by Taejin

That applies to people in general, regardless of whether they are religious or not, some people are good, some people are bad.

Yes of course this is true. But Har-Tru would probably reply that religion can be used as a way to brainwash good people into doing bad things. This is not possible with atheism since it does not include any ideology (why would you suicide-bomb yourself because of your lack of belief in something?)

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by Lopez

Yes of course this is true. But Har-Tru would probably reply that religion can be used as a way to brainwash good people into doing bad things. This is not possible with atheism since it does not include any ideology (why would you suicide-bomb yourself because of your lack of belief in something?)

Well, religion is hardly the only thing that can motivate or brainwash people. Fascists weren't motivated by religion, and that still didn't stop them doing what they did.

[Johnny Groove]

Originally Posted by Lopez

How could any job be tough for an all-powerful being who can make things happen simply by thinking them

It ain't that easy. God, imo, believes in free will. He can't just do this or do that on a whim, he must think of the consequences of his actions upon different people.

[Har-Tru]

Originally Posted by Taejin

Well, religion is hardly the only thing that can motivate or brainwash people. Fascists weren't motivated by religion, and that still didn't stop them doing what they did.

Who said religion is the only thing that can motivate or brainwash people?

In order to brainwash people, what you need is a dogma. A Marxist dogma, a fascist dogma... or any manifestation of the oldest, most powerful and most widespread kind of dogma humankind ever knew: religious dogma.

[Sham Kay]

Originally Posted by Lopez

How could any job be tough for an all-powerful being who can make things happen simply by thinking them ?

God underestimated how all-powerful these humans can be at praying for things

[Lopez]

Originally Posted by Johnny Groove

It ain't that easy. God, imo, believes in free will. He can't just do this or do that on a whim, he must think of the consequences of his actions upon different people.

Well, being all powerful and all knowing, god will know everything that will ever happen. Thus at the moment of creation, why would he create anything less than perfect? Unless he/she is malicious, of course. Goodness is just something that people assume.

[Time Violation]

Originally Posted by Har-Tru

Who said religion is the only thing that can motivate or brainwash people?

In order to brainwash people, what you need is a dogma. A Marxist dogma, a fascist dogma... or any manifestation of the oldest, most powerful and most widespread kind of dogma humankind ever knew: religious dogma.

Lol, not really. Often it's enough to give them a bit of power, like a few people under them, a bit of money, no need for fancy words and big talks

[Har-Tru]

Originally Posted by Taejin

Lol, not really. Often it's enough to give them a bit of power, like a few people under them, a bit of money, no need for fancy words and big talks

A bit of power... and a dogma.

"Spending money on the government is wrong...", "We should tolerate all views...", etc.

[Time Violation]

Ok, can you explain what dogma are these guys following? 50k dead in 6 yrs in a single country.

Mexico's Drug War: 50,000 Dead in 6 Years

[Johnny Groove]

Originally Posted by Lopez

Well, being all powerful and all knowing, god will know everything that will ever happen. Thus at the moment of creation, why would he create anything less than perfect? Unless he/she is malicious, of course. Goodness is just something that people assume.

Cause God is human. He is not perfect, he's made some mistakes, he himself will probably admit. But he still tries to do his best. I believe that God exists, I believe there is one overruling energy in the universe. I don't know the extent of his perfection and power and all knowing and all this, but I do believe he is there, doing his best to run the universe. As humans, we just need to respect each other, be open minded and loving for each and every living being in the world. Most of all, tolerance for those who believe different things, ability to agree to disagree, and still love each other.

What are your beliefs, mate?