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View Poll Results: Vote for speeding up the courts or against it!

Speed up the courts 299 80.59%
Leave them as they are 72 19.41%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-23-2012, 09:15 AM   #736
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
2012 AO final was one of the greatest matches the sport has ever seen.

The brutality of it was immense. None of the guys from the past would have survived something like that. It gave a perspective to pushing this sport to new limits.
Rubish. AO 2005 semi was miles better match. It was brutal as well but had skill and variety from both players displaying all their arsenal to win. Those who understand tennis recognize physicality and sheer effort even when both players dont grunt like whores..
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:27 AM   #737
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

T-Doc you are a player fan and not one who cares about the sport. It's so damn obvious, if conditions weren't favouring Nadal then you would be the first to bitch and moan about. Heck, once Nadal retires you will disappear.

Tennis needs variety of gamestyles and surfaces. I lived through the times of the serve fests and even during those times rarely someone with an Isner game won anything major.

Anyone who didn't watch tennis before Nadal and Djokovic probably 78% of the board don't have a reference point to what happened before they came on tour. Got to understand the previous history before which lead to the current situation we have and why it won't change in a hurry.

Now the game is at a point where speeding up the faster surfaces is viable to give some variety. No, it doesn't mean ice rink quick and any changes will take 4-5 years to be noticeable, just like when they homogenised everything.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:45 AM   #738
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
I fully agree with this. Which is part of the reason I can't take the 'Big 4' hype seriously at all. If these players are really the cream of the crop and so far ahead of everyone else in terms of talent and ability, they should be able to show it in every kind of conditions instead of boycotting/whining/losing early as soon as there's even the slighest change in conditions/speed (ie Madrid this year).
Well said. And thatīs also why I canīt take it seriously when people are talking about these players as the best ever top 4. The reason these guys are playing finals week in, week out is because they can play week in, week out without altering their game one bit. Identical surfaces make for indentical game styles and indentical players. Sampras, Becker, Edberg would all have trashed Nadal, Murray and Djokovic on fast hcīs or indoor carpets.

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
2012 AO final was one of the greatest matches the sport has ever seen.

The brutality of it was immense. None of the guys from the past would have survived something like that. It gave a perspective to pushing this sport to new limits.
It gave a new perspective of pushing, thatīs for sure. It was a terrible match for tennis. Tennis is not primarily an endurance sport, we have cycling, marathon running, triathlon alredy. Tennis should be about who plays better, not who can run more. Itīs a disgrace that two players play a five set GS final on hard court, and neither of them even has the balls to attack the net. The reason it lasted so long, was because neither of them tried to finish the points. Thatīs not tennis. Besides, I cant even see the commercial benefit in it. Fine, itīs easier for a casual fan to watch a match where the ball is in play, but surely a casual fan wonīt want to watch a tennis match for what, five hours? And anyone who understands anything about the game, would appreciate more variety, more attacking.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:04 AM   #739
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

This years finals have been crappy.

Wimbledon was good in set 2, Olympics was obviously a classic
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:28 AM   #740
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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It gave a new perspective of pushing, thatīs for sure. It was a terrible match for tennis. Tennis is not primarily an endurance sport, we have cycling, marathon running, triathlon alredy. Tennis should be about who plays better, not who can run more. Itīs a disgrace that two players play a five set GS final on hard court, and neither of them even has the balls to attack the net. The reason it lasted so long, was because neither of them tried to finish the points. Thatīs not tennis. Besides, I cant even see the commercial benefit in it. Fine, itīs easier for a casual fan to watch a match where the ball is in play, but surely a casual fan wonīt want to watch a tennis match for what, five hours? And anyone who understands anything about the game, would appreciate more variety, more attacking.
This!!!!
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:32 AM   #741
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

This thread has been going around in circles but I suppose that is its goal . Manuel, of course, is right about the ATP marketing BS but it's not Federer's fault. It's not even Murray's fault. To a lesser extent Djokovic but primarily Nadull.

Although the ATP have done this slowing down and homogenisation of their own account, Nadull has been instrumental in all of this and recently Djokovic has revealed he likes to tell people what surface to play on. I've never heard this from Murray or Federer who has said he likes different conditions and enjoys the challenge they present.

With that being said, nothing's going to change soon and it's infuriating because even if Fed wins a lot I'll be quite happy but not as much as before. Nothing beats seeing your fave winning with aggressive, attacking tennis where he's not forced to wait out errors or opportunities to attack in long rallies .
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:53 PM   #742
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Lenders, your posts over the last pages are like a voice of reason. I couldn't agree with you more. Clay should stay clay and Nadal should be able to win his tournaments on it quite easily. However, making Wimbledon a clay tournament in the 2nd week is something that simply MUST change. But this is specific to slams, the speed of courts should be evened out throughout the season just like you said, make some of them super slow, make some super fast and mix up the middle ground for the rest of the tournaments.

Djoko/Murray/Nadal fans seem to always think that people who talk of speeding up the courts want the Sampras era back where serves were 90% of the game everywhere you played. No. Just that serve & volley is 1 more way of playing the game, it's legitimate and there should be some tournaments where that strength should be rewarded. As the most dominant play style in the 90s it has completely disappeared now and that's just as problematic.

We need a middle ground allowing players of all styles a chance to shine and surface specialists to make a come back. I still believe the top 4 would remain the top 4 (it's not like Djoko mugged out on the fast courts of cinci this year now is it? He made a final rather easily) but upsets like Nadal in Wimbledon should happen more as surface specialists get a chance to get the jump on the top players.
Fully agree with this, couldn't have put it better myself

As for whether the top 4 would remain the top 4, I honestly have no idea. I don't have the foreseeing powers to guess what the rankings would be like in completely different circumstances. But regardless of whether or not those four would be the four best players, what I'm pretty confident of is that their ranking positions would not be so stable - I'm not fully convinced they'd be the four best players, but even if they were they'd be overtaken on occasion and have to get their ranking back.

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Well said. And thatīs also why I canīt take it seriously when people are talking about these players as the best ever top 4. The reason these guys are playing finals week in, week out is because they can play week in, week out without altering their game one bit. Identical surfaces make for indentical game styles and indentical players. Sampras, Becker, Edberg would all have trashed Nadal, Murray and Djokovic on fast hcīs or indoor carpets.
Agree with this.

But why even go as far as to mention all-time greats lie Sampras, Becker and Edberg? Remember Madrid this year, Nadal was drawn to play Berdych in QF had he lived up to his seeding. I seriously doubt he'd have even taken a set off Berdych in those conditions. There are currently active players who'd not fear those three one bit if they faced them on a surface where they can't run down every ball and retrive everything.

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This thread has been going around in circles but I suppose that is its goal . Manuel, of course, is right about the ATP marketing BS but it's the top Federer's fault. It's not even Murray's fault. To a lesser extent Djokovic but primarily Nadull.

Although the ATP have done this slowing down and homogenisation of their own account, Nadull has been instrumental in all of this and recently Djokovic has revealed he likes to tell people what surface to play on. I've never heard this from Murray or Federer who has said he likes different conditions and enjoys the challenge they present.

With that being said, nothing's going to change soon and it's infuriating because even if Fed wins a lot I'll be quite happy but not as much as before. Nothing beats seeing your fave winning with aggressive, attacking tennis where he's not forced to wait out errors or opportunities to attack in long rallies .
You should be happy as a Federer fan imo. He has shown the ability to adapt and excel on any kind of conditions, even past 30yo. Definitely the most complete player/talent I've seen in my tennis watching years, he doesn't need the conditions to be perfectly suited to him to excel because his game is so complete he can adapt to any conditions.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:58 PM   #743
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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You should be happy as a Federer fan imo. He has shown the ability to adapt and excel on any kind of conditions, even past 30yo. Definitely the most complete player/talent I've seen in my tennis watching years, he doesn't need the conditions to be perfectly suited to him to excel because his game is so complete he can adapt to any conditions.
I am happy he's still successful and has shown such resilience and ability to adapt but I started watching and admiring his game because I love the way he played back in 2003-2005/6. Now even his game has gone somewhat boring, otherwise he just loses. It's so frustrating. Dubai was such an enjoyable tournament this year.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:05 PM   #744
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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I am happy he's still successful and has shown such resilience and ability to adapt but I started watching and admiring his game because I love the way he played back in 2003-2005/6. Now even his game has gone somewhat boring, otherwise he just loses. It's so frustrating. Dubai was such an enjoyable tournament this year.
Yup, his game was definitely more exciting back then. The need to adapt definitely made it more boring.

Dubai was not a super fast hardcourt, but it was the fastest we had this year for sure. There were some really good matches, particularly liked the Federer vs Del Potro semifinal.

I really enjoyed the Madrid tournament; although I believe such surface shouldn't be introduced on clay, but on hardcourts, it was nice to see something different for a change. The semis with Berdych/Del Potro and the final with Federer/Berdych were very enjoyable matches, as were some of the early round matches namely Fed vs Raonic. I didn't like seeing a clay tournament play like that, but it's good that there was at least one tourament that rewarded serving and shotmaking over defense and movement.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #745
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

klizan and youzhny played for nearly 4 hours indoors?

ok
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:29 PM   #746
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

I'm 100% with the speed up thing.

I like fast tennis, so we should speed all courts.


The perfect scenario is a court so fast if you try to return the ball you die.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:33 PM   #747
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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I think a good compromise would be to speed up all HC and slow down clay, but manipulate the conditions so that the bounce is low on all surfaces. That would be fair.

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Old 09-24-2012, 05:20 AM   #748
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'Best solution' yet hey?
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:24 AM   #749
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

US open should be moved to Asia.Don't let the dirty hands turn this sport into business.:
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:09 AM   #750
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

That Tokyo court belongs in Arthur Ashe stadium.
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