[Freak3yman84]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

This.

If the top players are so great and talented, they should be able to show it in every type of conditions. The real reason why courts won't be sped up any time soon is because, for marketing purposes, it is in the ATP's best interest to preserve the untouchable image of the 'Big 4' and not expose them as the one dimensional baseline grinders at least 2/3 of them are.

It is? Am I the only one who would like some variety? If the top 4 was gone and changed fairly often I'm sure more people would like Men's Tennis. I heard TF is getting more traffic than MTF and I'm fairly sure that the reason is that they have new top players every 1/2-3/4 a year.

[Action Jackson]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

I agree with this. Homogenization allows the ATP to promote tennis as a consistent narrative and hype this 'Big 4' to ridiculous extents.

The detrimental effects are far bigger though: we have one dimensional top players who throw tantrums as soon as the condtions change even a bit and talented players whose tennis style is not baseline grinding can never really fulfill their potential. The only 'advantage' is more money for the ATP and titles for those whose style suits the current conditions. All the rest are nefarious effects

The way it is now, every condition has been virtually controlled apart from the sun and the wind at outdoor events. They are trying to do this well but since they make so much money financially with the marketing that this is so great, when the surfaces are virtually the same. It's 101 Marketing and Spin "accentuate the positives and hide the negatives". Since they can virtually guarantee the top 4 at these events make better sense.

Nadal playing on one of those ice rinks would be funny, but if he was good enough then he'd win there as well.

[Action Jackson]

Originally Posted by Freak3yman84

It is? Am I the only one who would like some variety? If the top 4 was gone and changed fairly often I'm sure more people would like Men's Tennis. I heard TF is getting more traffic than MTF and I'm fairly sure that the reason is that they have new top players every 1/2-3/4 a year.

TF doesn't count.

[Mark Lenders]

Originally Posted by Freak3yman84

It is? Am I the only one who would like some variety? If the top 4 was gone and changed fairly often I'm sure more people would like Men's Tennis. I heard TF is getting more traffic than MTF and I'm fairly sure that the reason is that they have new top players every 1/2-3/4 a year.

I said the ATP's best interest, not the best interest of tennis fans.

This so-called 'Big 4' has become a huge cash cow for the ATP, surfaces will only be further slowed down to ensure their chances of getting beaten by other players go down.

Most die hard tennis fans would definitely prefer diversified conditions and surface speeds across the season, but unfortunately that's not what would bring in the $$$

[Mark Lenders]

Originally Posted by Action Jackson

The way it is now, every condition has been virtually controlled apart from the sun and the wind at outdoor events. They are trying to do this well but since they make so much money financially with the marketing that this is so great, when the surfaces are virtually the same. It's 101 Marketing and Spin "accentuate the positives and hide the negatives". Since they can virtually guarantee the top 4 at these events make better sense.

Nadal playing on one of those ice rinks would be funny, but if he was good enough then he'd win there as well.

I fully agree with this. Which is part of the reason I can't take the 'Big 4' hype seriously at all. If these players are really the cream of the crop and so far ahead of everyone else in terms of talent and ability, they should be able to show it in every kind of conditions instead of boycotting/whining/losing early as soon as there's even the slighest change in conditions/speed (ie Madrid this year).

[rocketassist]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

I said the ATP's best interest, not the best interest of tennis fans.

This so-called 'Big 4' has become a huge cash cow for the ATP, surfaces will only be further slowed down to ensure their chances of getting beaten by other players go down.

Most die hard tennis fans would definitely prefer diversified conditions and surface speeds across the season, but unfortunately that's not what would bring in the $$$

Anyone who contests this should have seen Charlie Pasarell (IW tournament director) when Nadal broke back in the second set against Nalbandian in their match there this year.

[Freak3yman84]

Originally Posted by Action Jackson

TF doesn't count.

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

I said the ATP's best interest, not the best interest of tennis fans.

This so-called 'Big 4' has become a huge cash cow for the ATP, surfaces will only be further slowed down to ensure their chances of getting beaten by other players go down.

Most die hard tennis fans would definitely prefer diversified conditions and surface speeds across the season, but unfortunately that's not what would bring in the $$$

But Women's Tennis in general is actually starting to get more popularity while Men's Tennis is losing popularity.

That's what I mean, how would they be money makers for the ATP when it's the fans paying for tickets, watching matches, and just generally being involved with Tennis that makes their money. And if the fans are disinterested (like they are now) then the ATP loses money

[cmoss]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

I said the ATP's best interest, not the best interest of tennis fans.

This so-called 'Big 4' has become a huge cash cow for the ATP, surfaces will only be further slowed down to ensure their chances of getting beaten by other players go down.

Most die hard tennis fans would definitely prefer diversified conditions and surface speeds across the season, but unfortunately that's not what would bring in the $$$

This.

[Mark Lenders]

Originally Posted by Freak3yman84

But Women's Tennis in general is actually starting to get more popularity while Men's Tennis is losing popularity.

That's what I mean, how would they be money makers for the ATP when it's the fans paying for tickets, watching matches, and just generally being involved with Tennis that makes their money. And if the fans are disinterested (like they are now) then the ATP loses money

I said the top 4 are cash cows, not the sport in general. I agree men's tennis is probably losing (genuine) fans, not everyone can put up with pushathons everywhere. But by hyping up four players to superstar status at the expense of everyone else and the sport in general, the ATP are making huge profits.

Don't you remember to which lengths the organizers were to make sure Ferrer and Berdych had no chance of winning their semis at the USO? Tennis isn't more popular than ever, but the 'Big 4' is. Everything must done to milk that cash cow for all it's worth, and given how one dimensional 2/3 of them are slowing the courts down more and more to make them as immune to upsets as possible is the way.

[atennisfan]

Originally Posted by Topspindoctor

Slowing is a good thing, people get to see rallies and more tennis, while players get to show off more skills instead of just serving. Everyone wins, except the serve bots. This is a positive. 90's tennis with Sampras against Ivanisievic on lightning fast indoor court was 2-3 shot rallies and shitload of tiebreaks. That wasn't real tennis.

AO final was not real tennis, it was more like marathon and boxing.

USO final was snoozefest, and the worst slams final in terms of quality.

[Freak3yman84]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

I said the top 4 are cash cows, not the sport in general. I agree men's tennis is probably losing (genuine) fans, not everyone can put up with pushathons everywhere. But by hyping up four players to superstar status at the expense of everyone else and the sport in general, the ATP are making huge profits.

Don't you remember to which lengths the organizers were to make sure Ferrer and Berdych had no chance of winning their semis at the USO? Tennis isn't more popular than ever, but the 'Big 4' is. Everything must done to milk that cash cow for all it's worth, and given how one dimensional 2/3 of them are slowing the courts down more and more to make them as immune to upsets as possible is the way.

Still confused as ever. I honestly know very few people who wouldn't want the top 4 to lose their positions at the top. So therefore keeping them at the top and advertising to death will just give us more exposure to them and therefore lose interest in them faster (which many have already) So because generally speaking not many people like the top 4 anymore, how exactly are they making money?

[Topspindoctor]

Originally Posted by atennisfan

AO final was not real tennis, it was more like marathon and boxing.

2012 AO final was one of the greatest matches the sport has ever seen.

The brutality of it was immense. None of the guys from the past would have survived something like that. It gave a perspective to pushing this sport to new limits.

[Mark Lenders]

Originally Posted by Freak3yman84

Still confused as ever. I honestly know very few people who wouldn't want the top 4 to lose their positions at the top. So therefore keeping them at the top and advertising to death will just give us more exposure to them and therefore lose interest in them faster (which many have already) So because generally speaking not many people like the top 4 anymore, how exactly are they making money?

Because you're thinking about real tennis fans, which are a minority. The majority are gloryhunters/player fans. You see that phenomenon on MTF too; a good % of posters are not tennis fans, but fans/tards of *insert top 4 player here*. This kind of fan is the majority and the target audience, you don't want them to be interested in tennis per se, you want to give them superstars to bandwagon/idolize.

There's also sponsors of course: what better way to hype up the sport to the sponsors than with this golden era with amazing top 4 BS?

Real tennis fans want things to change, but unfortunately the $$$ doesn't come from them.

Originally Posted by Topspindoctor

The brutality of it was immense. None of the guys from the past would have survived something like that. It gave a perspective to pushing this sport to new limits.

It definitely gave a new perspective to pushing, that's for sure

[Freak3yman84]

Originally Posted by Mark Lenders

Because you're thinking about real tennis fans, which are a minority. The majority are gloryhunters/player fans. You see that phenomenon on MTF too; a good % of posters are not tennis fans, but fans/tards of *insert top 4 player here*. This kind of fan is the majority and the target audience, you don't want them to be interested in tennis per se, you want to give them superstars to bandwagon/idolize.

There's also sponsors of course: what better way to hype up the sport to the sponsors than with this golden era with amazing top 4 BS?

Real tennis fans want things to change, but unfortunately the $$$ doesn't come from them.

I thought more people hate the top 4 than vice versa I guess not It seems like a marketing strategy that only 6 year olds would fall for We need a revolt, and we need one now!

[Topspindoctor]

Lenders you are getting as bitter/redundant as some of the nostalgiatards around here who still think S&V on 90's grass is the only way to play the game. Also pretty presumptuous to assume who is "real tennis fan" and that they "want things to change". I think many people enjoy epic matches of today with many momentum shifts instead of "lol that guy had one bad service game, he just lost the set".