[abraxas21]

Originally Posted by Redeyz

I find it somewhat bizarre,especially in the USA, that doping is considered such a horrible offense. $74 million was used to try to prosecute an accused baseball player for doping. Yet only $16 million was appropriated to investigate 9/11. Goldman Sachs was left off the hook last week by the Justice Department for its many crimes. But people are up in arms and crying crocodile tears that dopers in sports need to be prosecuted and sent to jail.

The fixation on drugs is way over the top. Again you have a place like America, where at least 40% of the population is on multiple prescription drugs. 1 million kids are on Ritalin. Who knows how many millions are on mind altering, SSRI like prozac etc. You have a culture or society riddled with legal drug abuse and use, not to mention the millions addicted to "ïllegal" drugs from marijuana to cocaine, crack, meth, heroine etc. Its truly bizarre and other worldly that people take such great umbrage to the use of drugs to enhance performance.

I see nothing wrong with people using blood transfusions or growth hormones etc.
How is this any different than the use of the many drug cocktails that doctors prescribe?
If an aging athlete can take a substance that prolongs or helps him heal quicker from an injury, then they should be able to do it.
As long as everyone has access to various formulas, then so be it.

Frankly, I am not sure how much beyond a marginal or short term boost it would have anyway.

the thing is, a lot of the Performance Enhancing Drugs tend to be unhealthy in the long run. Thus, by adopting a "everyone does them so let's allow them" stance, you're basically (1) advocating (or at the very least approving) an unhealthy lifestyle among sportsmen and (2) telling to the ones who want to play sports free of drugs that they won't be able to compete or win jackshit in the current conditions.

[Slade]

[Serverer]

Originally Posted by rocketassist

Any top player doping will be brushed completely under the carpet. And no I'm not suggesting any top player is.

Agreed. Too much money in the sport to let something like that ruin the image of a clean sport. Much better to catch someone that noone cares about instead.

[Just like heaven]

Originally Posted by abraxas21

hmmm, ok, i pointed out the exact unedited post for you and everyone to see my point. make whatever conclusion you wish to make but i remind you that the rules are to be respected and insulting fellow members is against them.

You should take it as an observation, not an insult. But if you felt insulted then I'm really, really sorry.

By the way, I have no problem with this thread. I just thought your reaction of editing the post and then acting all innocent was funny (especially given the topic of the thread).

[abraxas21]

Originally Posted by Just like heaven

You should take it as an observation, not an insult. But if you felt insulted then I'm really, really sorry.

that's how most insults can be classified. i'd like to make my honest observations about you or others but i'd get banned most likely. Then again, i'm a respectable and law-abiding member of this community so I'll respect the established rules.

By the way, I have no problem with this thread. I just thought your reaction of editing the post and then acting all innocent was funny (especially given the topic of the thread).

your opinion and like i said, the main ideas are the same and so is the content. everyone is free to see the content of both paragrahps and make their own conclusions (i'm not surprised by the way you chose to interpret it), then again, i doubt anyone cares that much.

[abraxas21]

too much talk about with nadalfans trying to kidnap the thread but nobody answers the real questions

Originally Posted by abraxas21

serious question: what are the cases in which the tournament winner has been declared void due to the fact that the winner got caught?

[MuzzahLovah]

Originally Posted by abraxas21

FYI, this thread is motivated by Lance Armstrong getting caught several years after his retirement.

He was never caught though, he just decided not to fight the USADA. It's unclear what jurisdiction they have over international cycling competitions years and decades after the fact, I'm not sure this title stripping thing is a sure bet despite what some articles are saying.

[MuzzahLovah]

Originally Posted by rocketassist

Any top player doping will be brushed completely under the carpet. And no I'm not suggesting any top player is.

Yep, any real top found to be doping would probably be quietly pushed out- like the politicians do, resigning to "spend more time with their families".

[TBkeeper]

Davydenko you're a grand slam finalist in my heart

[Looner]

Originally Posted by MuzzahLovah

He was never caught though, he just decided not to fight the USADA. It's unclear what jurisdiction they have over international cycling competitions years and decades after the fact, I'm not sure this title stripping thing is a sure bet despite what some articles are saying.

This is not surprising coming from you (ie cluelessness) but Armstrong has been going to court for more pathetic reasons than even Apple for well over a decade now and now he decides (out of nowhere) he's not going to sue. Lol at logic.

[Redeyz]

Originally Posted by abraxas21

the thing is, a lot of the Performance Enhancing Drugs tend to be unhealthy in the long run. Thus, by adopting a "everyone does them so let's allow them" stance, you're basically (1) advocating (or at the very least approving) an unhealthy lifestyle among sportsmen and (2) telling to the ones who want to play sports free of drugs that they won't be able to compete or win jackshit in the current conditions.

Frankly my position is people should be allowed to do whatever they wish to with their body. If the consequences are unhealthy, then the results will be that person's to deal with. There are consequences to everything or every substance in life. I am not saying everyone is doing them. The vast majority are not doing them.

I am neither advocating nor endorsing the use of PEDs. I am advocating and endorsing individual choice and self-responsibility.

[philosophicalarf]

The irony of all this is that cycling's dopesting is approx 2362346245624562456x more comprehensive than that of tennis.

I wouldn't be surprised if everybody in the top25 was doping. That's what happens in sports where there's basically no testing: the dopers dominate (see baseball).

[Looner]

Well, of course no prize money, etc...

[abraxas21]

Originally Posted by Redeyz

Frankly my position is people should be allowed to do whatever they wish to with their body. If the consequences are unhealthy, then the results will be that person's to deal with. There are consequences to everything or every substance in life. I am not saying everyone is doing them. The vast majority are not doing them.

I am neither advocating nor endorsing the use of PEDs. I am advocating and endorsing individual choice and self-responsibility.

but when you don't penalize doping you're like to get a field of athletes in which virtually anyone dopes. thus, the ones who want to stay doping-free are excluded because there's no way they'd be able to compete at the same level of the ones who dope.

do you think this is fair?

[redshift36188]

There is just no way around this, any competitive system will have these kinds of problems, specially when there is money on the line.

In the end, those who didn't dope will be proud of their achievements (even if minor) while those who did won't feel so comfortable with themselves.